Help! Help request: There is no power to motor

[C&T]

My bike seems to have developed a fault and I was wondering if anyone could point me in the right direction to track it down. I rode home the other morning fine and put the bike on charge. When it came time to go to work the battery appeared to be charged and the charger light was green. Upon getting on I found that the motor was not running and several times upon turning the key to the "on" position resulted in a clunking noise and the power indicator on the handlebars going off. I have not had the chance to track down where the clunking sound is coming from, the hub or the battery but will be investigating further in a couple days to try to repair whatever the issue is. The power does not always go off when turning the key though it still won't run, and when it stays (most times) on the battery indicators on both the handlebar and the battery housing indicate a full charge, plugging the battery into the charger gives a green fully charged light.

My bike is Chadwick&Taylor. Bought it second hand a month ago and it was working fine. The same model was discussed here before and some photos are attached in this post: https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/how-i-can-increase-max-speed-of-my-bike.30590/post-426372


Any help would be appreciated and thanks in advance!
Paul

 

[Andy-Mat]

My bike seems to have developed a fault and I was wondering if anyone could point me in the right direction to track it down. I rode home the other morning fine and put the bike on charge. When it came time to go to work the battery appeared to be charged and the charger light was green. Upon getting on I found that the motor was not running and several times upon turning the key to the "on" position resulted in a clunking noise and the power indicator on the handlebars going off. I have not had the chance to track down where the clunking sound is coming from, the hub or the battery but will be investigating further in a couple days to try to repair whatever the issue is. The power does not always go off when turning the key though it still won't run, and when it stays (most times) on the battery indicators on both the handlebar and the battery housing indicate a full charge, plugging the battery into the charger gives a green fully charged light.

My bike is Chadwick&Taylor. Bought it second hand a month ago and it was working fine. The same model was discussed here before and some photos are attached in this post: https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/how-i-can-increase-max-speed-of-my-bike.30590/post-426372


Any help would be appreciated and thanks in advance!
Paul

The green LED on the charger has at least some other indications:-
1) Battery is full, charging has been stopped (though sadly some chargers still supply a small current, which over time, can damage a battery. Never leave on charge once the LED is green. Some expensive chargers apparently are far better on that point!)
2) Battery is in some way possibly defective, no further charging allowed for safety reasons.
3) Battery is prevented from charging as it has sunk to a low voltage level, where normal charging is not allowed, probably by the BMS in the battery. This is a safety precaution, as such batteries can cause very hot and dangerous fires and gases.
4) A Fuse, wiring or connectors are defective, and the charge is simply not getting to the battery, and is in fact now empty, or at the level that the BMS prevents further riding.
There may be other faults that I have not heard of.
The best way to start is to get hold of a voltage or multi meter (assuming that you know how to use one correctly) and measure the voltage out of the charger when NOT connected to the battery, and the voltage that the battery has.
Note them down and post the results here, also with the "nominal" voltage of your battery.
Many here can start helping you further once they know a few things.
regards
Andy

 

[Nealh]

First thing is to physically measure the battery voltage with a meter to get an accurate reading.
If the handle bar display shuts off then it is due to power disruption between it and the battery.

 

[C&T]

Hi guys,

Thanks for the tips. Attaching the photos.

 

[Nealh]

29.3or 4 is spot on for 24v, so no problem. Fuse is intact.

Has the bike been left out in the rain ?
Damp/moisture can and will get in to led/lcd display and cause shorting issues.

Check all wiring (esp the phase wire connections Blue/Green & Yellow thicker wires and the hub motor connection.
If still no joy resistance check the controller phases when ready we can tell you how to go about this.

 

[C&T]

Now the led display is also working and it shows max capacity, but the motor won't start. Any suggestions?

 

[C&T]

Has the bike been left out in the rain ?
Damp/moisture can and will get in to led/lcd display and cause shorting issues.

No, for the time I have it I stored it only indoors.

 

[Nealh]

The controller is located in front of the battery so you need to access it to check the wire connections and to carry out controller resistance testing of the three phases.

Electrical issues can be a pain to trace.
Has anything no matter how minor occured between the last time the bike worked and when you went to use it next.

 

[C&T]

The controller is located in front of the battery so you need to access it to check the wire connections and to carry out controller resistance testing of the three phases.

Electrical issues can be a pain to trace.
Has anything no matter how minor occured between the last time the bike worked and when you went to use it next.

While riding last time the led display started blinking for a while. But then everything was fine. Charged the battery and put it on the bike. It worked for a while, then heard the clunking noise, restarted and same again. Now it doesn't start at all.

 

[Nealh]

To rule out the led show us the wire connector and wire colours, the wiring can be shorted/ linked together to see if the motor runs or not, other wise you need to locate the controller to test it.

 

[C&T]

Do you mean these:

https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/attachments/28537560_1914820261885865_619552829_n-jpg.23644/

https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/attachments/28722372_1914820328552525_1136195868_n-jpg.23643/

My motor is 6 wires. I see 3 big pins, and 3 smaller pins. See photo.

https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/attachments/18871027_1914820348552523_438056269_n-1-jpg.23646/

 

[Nealh]

The first one is simply the led display it is not a controller (the brains of the bike),
trace the wiring to it connector to the main controller.

The second one is the PAS sensor, with the battery on and when you rotate the cranks does that small Red led blink on and off as the magnets pass the sensor ?

The last one is the motor wire (3 big pins are hub phase and 3 smaller are hub hall sensor wires), if you follow it from the hub it will lead you to the controller in front of the battery.

 

[C&T]

The first one is simply the led display it is not a controller (the brains of the bike),
trace the wiring to it connector to the main controller.

All wires go across the bike and then go out to the battery box

The second one is the PAS sensor, with the battery on and when you rotate the cranks does that small Red led blink on and off as the magnets pass the sensor ?

Yes it blinks when I pedal and it's on when I don't and also doesn't blink if I pedal backwards.

The last one is the motor wire (3 big pins are hub phase and 3 smaller are hub hall sensor wires), if you follow it from the hub it will lead you to the controller in front of the battery.

I don't see any controller... It's just cables and the battery. I even opened the battery box. See photo:

 

[Nealh]

The controller isn't actually inside the battery case, with the battery removed it is in the space at the front of the battery carrier on the bike rack.

Once you get the battery screwed back together and back on the bike , try the PAS and tell us if the led blinks on/off when the bike is powered up and the cranks rotated.

 

[C&T]

The controller isn't actually inside the battery case, with the battery removed it is in the space at the front of the battery carrier on the bike rack.

Once you get the battery screwed back together and back on the bike , try the PAS and tell us if the led blinks on/off when the bike is powered up and the cranks rotated.

You mean here? (photo). That would be harder to disassemble :/


Yes the led near the PAS blinks.

 

[Nealh]

The PAS blinking is a good sign and means it is working fine. So my suspicions are a fault within the controller and likely a mosfet issue.

Yes the controller is in there where the cables go in to it, the controller is an ali box with a pcb board inside.

Going back to #11 and pic #3, you can test the three big pins (phase wires) on the cable that feeds to the controller in the rack casing. Leave the battery off and identify the V- contact and the V+ one.

With your meter set the dial to DC 200k ohms for resistance testing, place the Black probe on the V- contact and then in turn the Red probe to each of the 3 big pins. You should get three readings the same, somewhere in the region 9- 10 ohms though they could be a bit lower or higher. If any vary widely then the controller is done for.
Next place the Red probe on the V- contact and the Black probe to each of the three same big pins, again the reading should be the same. You may see infinity or 1 on all three, if any red 0 then the controller is done for.
Any reading not correct means a mosfet is damaged, mosfets can be replaced but it may also mean other components like a resistor or diode may be also be damaged.

 

[C&T]

The PAS blinking is a good sign, so my suspicions are a fault within the controller and likely a mosfet issue.

Do you think it's a good idea to buy a new controller?

 

[Nealh]

Do you think it's a good idea to buy a new controller?

No because then you are taking a complete stab in the dark and trying to guess what might be wrong, ebikes diagnosis is about ruling out the usual suspects first.

Sometimes the issue ends up being a broken wire some where in the system or a bad wire connection, that's why you need to try and access the controller as well as carrying out the simple free tests I have mentioned.

In a car the mechanic plugs diagnosis computer to see what the fault is, with ebikes you have to carry out manual checks with a meter to determine faults.

 

[C&T]

The PAS blinking is a good sign and means it is working fine. So my suspicions are a fault within the controller and likely a mosfet issue.

Yes the controller is in there where the cables go in to it, the controller is an ali box with a pcb board inside.

Going back to #11 and pic #3, you can test the three big pins (phase wires) on the cable that feeds to the controller in the rack casing. Leave the battery off and identify the V- contact and the V+ one.

With your meter set the dial to DC 200k ohms for resistance testing, place the Black probe on the V- contact and then in turn the Red probe to each of the 3 big pins. You should get three readings the same, somewhere in the region 9- 10 ohms though they could be a bit lower or higher. If any vary widely then the controller is done for.
Next place the Red probe on the V- contact and the Black probe to each of the three same big pins, again the reading should be the same. You may see infinity or 1 on all three, if any red 0 then the controller is done for.
Any reading not correct means a mosfet is damaged, mosfets can be replaced but it may also mean other components like a resistor or diode may be also be damaged.

Not sure I do it right but I get always a 1.