Help please Noise
- Thread starter KERABO
- Start date
Ok I checked as you said
I assume with power on?
Yellow 1.8v no movement
Green 1.8v no movement
Red 4.3v no movement
The Red and Yellow have double wires into the connector from I think speed signal?
There is an empty hole in the socket but the other side to the hub has a White wire.
Thanks Ken
I assume with power on?
Yellow 1.8v no movement
Green 1.8v no movement
Red 4.3v no movement
The Red and Yellow have double wires into the connector from I think speed signal?
There is an empty hole in the socket but the other side to the hub has a White wire.
Thanks Ken
Attachments
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I don’t think you are doing the hall test properly. Make sure you rotate the wheel backwards so the clutch doesn’t engage.
4.3v on red is usually the supply voltage and won’t switch when the wheel is slowly rotated.
You should see green, yellow and blue switch between 1.8v and 4.3v as you slowly rotate the wheel. If you spin the wheel too fast then you won’t see it switch properly.
If they all switch then the hall test has passed if one or more doesn’t switch then the hall test has failed.
The white wire is usually for the speed sensor. And not all controllers need it to be connected, because they use the phase hall sensors to calculate speed.
Dont know what you mean when you say “The Red and Yellow have double wires into the connector”. Are you referring to the colour of the wires or colour of the connector.?
4.3v on red is usually the supply voltage and won’t switch when the wheel is slowly rotated.
You should see green, yellow and blue switch between 1.8v and 4.3v as you slowly rotate the wheel. If you spin the wheel too fast then you won’t see it switch properly.
If they all switch then the hall test has passed if one or more doesn’t switch then the hall test has failed.
The white wire is usually for the speed sensor. And not all controllers need it to be connected, because they use the phase hall sensors to calculate speed.
Dont know what you mean when you say “The Red and Yellow have double wires into the connector”. Are you referring to the colour of the wires or colour of the connector.?
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What about the blue wire? From what you've said, somethings not right. There should be a connector from the motor with red, black, blue, yellow and green wires. You measure the blue, yellow and green ones. Did you turn the wheel backwards?
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Try reading this tutorial to see if it makes any sense to you. It has photographs which may help you understand a bit better.
yes did turn it backwards very slow.
Did you mean the Thick wires or the thin ones going to the hub?
I will double check snd make sure I checked the blue
thanks Ken
The thin wires are connected to the hall sensors. All of your testing must be done on the thin wires.
The thick wires are the motor phase wires.
You should have red, black, yellow, blue, green and white thin wires. Forget about white, that is usually for the speed sensor.
Red and Black thin wires are the power supply, so there should be permanently 4.3v between red and black.
Yellow, blue and green thin wires are the hall signal wires and each should switch between 1.8v and 4.3v at different times when the wheel is slowly rotated backwards. And we do mean slow, just a few degrees at a time.
The multimeter has to be connected between yellow and black, blue and black and yellow and black in turn, so you test one hall sensor at a time.
If one or more hall sensors aren’t switching then your controller is doing It’s job properly and running the motor in sensorless mode.
But it can’t cope at high load and the controller is losing synchronisation with the motor.
So you either have to live with it and ride more gently or replace the broken hall sensors in the motor.
Some of the cheaper hall sensors that are fitted to these motors are very heat sensitive and if the motor is run too hot they will blow easily. Higher quality Honeywell hall sensors can withstand much higher temperatures and will last a long time.
The thick wires are the motor phase wires.
You should have red, black, yellow, blue, green and white thin wires. Forget about white, that is usually for the speed sensor.
Red and Black thin wires are the power supply, so there should be permanently 4.3v between red and black.
Yellow, blue and green thin wires are the hall signal wires and each should switch between 1.8v and 4.3v at different times when the wheel is slowly rotated backwards. And we do mean slow, just a few degrees at a time.
The multimeter has to be connected between yellow and black, blue and black and yellow and black in turn, so you test one hall sensor at a time.
If one or more hall sensors aren’t switching then your controller is doing It’s job properly and running the motor in sensorless mode.
But it can’t cope at high load and the controller is losing synchronisation with the motor.
So you either have to live with it and ride more gently or replace the broken hall sensors in the motor.
Some of the cheaper hall sensors that are fitted to these motors are very heat sensitive and if the motor is run too hot they will blow easily. Higher quality Honeywell hall sensors can withstand much higher temperatures and will last a long time.
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It's possible that your sensors are not working. That would explain why your controller might be working in sensorless mode. We need to be sure about whether they work or not before we can choose the route to a solution. That's why the test results need to be definitive.
OK. That's bad. If you had any other controller it probably wouldn't work at all. I'm pretty sure that the self-learning detected nothing happening with the halls, so hswitched to sensorless mode.
Where did the motor come from?
It's interesting that one is stuck on high and the others low and none are working. I can't make sense of that.
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The bike was very old but a very nice light alloy folding bike with good suspension.
I have removed all of the old stuff
Fitted a new type battery
What was supposed to be a good drive wheel for the rear instead of the front And fitted the old rear wheel to the front.
A complete kit inc
controller
PAS
Display
throttle
levers
It was maybe not worth it but the bike is so light and good to ride and I am trying to learn about these bit by bit.
So looking like the Rear Hub ?
Thanks
I have removed all of the old stuff
Fitted a new type battery
What was supposed to be a good drive wheel for the rear instead of the front And fitted the old rear wheel to the front.
A complete kit inc
controller
PAS
Display
throttle
levers
It was maybe not worth it but the bike is so light and good to ride and I am trying to learn about these bit by bit.
So looking like the Rear Hub ?
Thanks
Attachments
Yes. It.ll be fine as long as you help it to start, but always noisier than with sensors. It's not too difficult to replace the halls and they only cost pence, so if you find that what you have becomes intolerable, you can open the motor to see what's wrong and replace the halls if necessary.
One other important thing. Hall sensors need either a pull-up or pull-down resistor to make them switch. Some motors have a pcb to hold the halls and the resistor, others have no resistor. There should be such a resistor in the controller, but I don't think all controllers have them.
Can you confirm that you did the above test while connected and powered by the controller, not from an external source?
Yes using the cycle power only.
I have had a Hub apart before to fit new gears.
would I be able to buy the Hall Sensors easy enough?
Thanks for your guidance doing this. Enjoying learning.
Ken
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search ebay for complete hall sensor pcb's, you may well find a match for your pcb for just a couple of quid more which would make for a easier soldering job if not confident in that area.
you may find the sensors/pcb 'glued' down, if gentle persuasion with a non metallic 'soft' plastic lever fails you? Try dabbing it a little with a solvent wetted cotton bud and leaving for 10 mins - again be mindful not to get lots of solvent on the coil laquear etc..
you may find the sensors/pcb 'glued' down, if gentle persuasion with a non metallic 'soft' plastic lever fails you? Try dabbing it a little with a solvent wetted cotton bud and leaving for 10 mins - again be mindful not to get lots of solvent on the coil laquear etc..
Just to update
I bought the tester that available and it shows nothing from the Hall Sensors at all So it confirms your diagnosi.
I will remove the wheel when I have more time.
I notice even with that plug disconnected the motor still works
Thanks Ken
You could try adding the resistor. You can use any one in the range 5k to 10k. You can shove its legs up the back of the tester connector - one leg on the 5v wire and the other on any of the hall signal wires to see if it starts switching. If it doesn't, try one leg up the ground wire and the other on a hall signal wire. Don't forget to turn the wheel backwards, not forwards.
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