Help me understand my new ebike

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
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My 700c Norco has 37mm Continental City rides and handled most conditions except Autumn leaves this was the BBS conversion, I only made the rear lock up once otherwise my HDB's are on the moneyl and have no need to lock up. I did have a few front end slides last Autumn on wet decaying leaves.
Have yet to find out how it will cope with the front wheel Big Bear BPM kit.
 

trex

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 15, 2011
7,703
2,671
yerrss...that would explain all those fat knobbly tyres on tour de France bikes. I have a city bike with fat marathon plus' - I've come off several times at relatively low speed, I have a high speed racer I regularly commute at 22 to 24 mph on on very skinny 700c 23 duranos, never any risk of skidding. I'd like to have some what you're smoking.
I can't see much of a point fiting knobblies to e-bikes TBH.
My point is skinny jets are not going to help the OP achieving higher speed, just more locking wheels and skids. I have MP+ 1.75" (touring) 43mm on my e-Specialized (with Tektro Auriga HDB) and skinny jets on my normal Trek (V brakes). It just does not make sense to have my tyres the other way round.
 

selrahc1992

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 10, 2014
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As I said before, a code 10 will reach about 40km/h on the road in favourable conditions. You need about 20 amps at 36v for that, but the current will probably be below that from about 35 km/h because of the back EMF from the motor.
I get 24 mph with a15A controller quite easilly
yerrss...that would explain all those fat knobbly tyres on tour de France bikes. I have a city bike with fat marathon plus' - I've come off several times at relatively low speed, I have a high speed racer I regularly commute at 22 to 24 mph on on very skinny 700c 23 duranos, never any risk of skidding. I'd like to have some what you're smoking.
to qualify the skidding bit, for me road surface has a great deal to do with it, on one long steep descent on very smooth tarmac in the mornings 38mph feels fine and solid, later on the way home there's very rough tarmac where the tyre seems to vibrate/bounce above 30 mph in ways that cause the front wheel to drift slightly in ways that feel terminal
 
D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
Skinny tyres definitely help you to go faster. I have 1.75 MPs, Saneagle has 1.25 and 1.5 MPs on his. When it comes to a downhill rolling contest, he wins every time by a lot. My motor will spin for a lot longer than his, so it's nothing to do with that. Maybe the extra 2" diameter helps too, hut I can't think why it should.
 

Kenny

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 13, 2007
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West of Scotland
Is Saneagle heavier than you?

That also could account for him freewheeling faster than yourself downhill.
 
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mfj197

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 18, 2014
553
160
Guildford
yerrss...that would explain all those fat knobbly tyres on tour de France bikes. I have a city bike with fat marathon plus' - I've come off several times at relatively low speed, I have a high speed racer I regularly commute at 22 to 24 mph on on very skinny 700c 23 duranos, never any risk of skidding.
That's not because of the width of the tyres, that's because of the type of tyre. Marathon Pluses, whilst they have many favourable assets, aren't great on grip. I have significantly more grip on 40mm Vittoria Voyager Hyper semi-slicks than I do on 25mm Bontragers, both on 700C wheels.
Skinny tyres definitely help you to go faster. I have 1.75 MPs, Saneagle has 1.25 and 1.5 MPs on his. When it comes to a downhill rolling contest, he wins every time by a lot. My motor will spin for a lot longer than his, so it's nothing to do with that. Maybe the extra 2" diameter helps too, hut I can't think why it should.
Perhaps counterintuitively it's actually the opposite - with identical types of tyre wider ones are quicker. Schwalbe have a good article on the topic here, I find Off The Beaten Path's pioneering tests and articles on the matter here good reading and Continental have a useful diagram below (their copyright):

The difference in performance betwen your bike and Saneagle's downhill will be down to other factors - if he put on 1.75s he'd be even further ahead.

Michael
 
D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
Is Saneagle heavier than you?

That also could account for him freewheeling faster than yourself downhill.
Yes,, but on his old bike that had Schwalbe City Jets on, i could always beat him in a rolling contest. Also, he always seems to be able to roll halfway up the next hill, while I have to pedal from the bottom. There's no doubt that it's a better rolling bike: As soon as you start pedalling, you can feel how easily it goes, even without the motor.
 
D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
The difference in performance betwen your bike and Saneagle's downhill will be down to other factors - if he put on 1.75s he'd be even further ahead.
Michael
Nice theory, but logic says that if that were true, everybody in the Tour de France would have 2 inch wide tyres!
 

mfj197

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 18, 2014
553
160
Guildford
Nice theory, but logic says that if that were true, everybody in the Tour de France would have 2 inch wide tyres!
And Off The Beaten Track address exactly that point in this article here! It's more than theory which is why both Schwalbe's and Continental's input is linked to in the post above, as is Off The Beaten Track's extensive testing on the matter.
 

selrahc1992

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 10, 2014
559
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And Off The Beaten Track address exactly that point in this article here! It's more than theory which is why both Schwalbe's and Continental's input is linked to in the post above, as is Off The Beaten Track's extensive testing on the matter.
I read a very good article in atob by mole (will find and paste it) about this - and why schwalbe big apples have such low rolling resistance (it has to do with the footprint being round) - and indeed they do (I've tried them, it's astonishing how easy they roll at around 15mph), but idiosyncratically I find they don't do that well at high speed - anything above twenty mph and they feel sluggish (in my experience only of course)
 

Alan Quay

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 4, 2012
2,351
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Devon
I've been running 2.3 inch tyres (schwalbe Fat Frank, equivalent to Big Apple) for a few years on my e-bike, and I wouldn't swap them for anything else. They are extremely comfortable, low rolling resistance, and puncture resistant (over 2000 country miles) and have loads of grip for tarmac use. I also use them on gravel no problem.
 
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MomentumUpstart

Pedelecer
Jun 15, 2015
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Thanks for so much great info!

I personally feel much safer and faster on thin smooth road bike tyres than wide knobby mountain bike tyres (on a smooth surface).
 

mfj197

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 18, 2014
553
160
Guildford
Thanks for so much great info!

I personally feel much safer and faster on thin smooth road bike tyres than wide knobby mountain bike tyres (on a smooth surface).
Knobblies don't have that much contact area so they do have less grip on road. Try a wide fast touring / commuting tyre though and the confidence they provide is amazing. They don't immediately feel as fast because they are heavier to spin up and you don't get as much handlebar buzz.
 

MomentumUpstart

Pedelecer
Jun 15, 2015
31
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Yeah I agree that a wider smooth tyre would provide more grip and be safer. Interesting to see they arent that much slower. So they are slower to get to the speed but they can hold on to the speed as well as thinner tyres? Comfort is secondary to speed for me.

Lots of those articles keep saying "at normal speeds". What about at 24mph, are the wider (1.75") smooth tyres just as fast as (~1")?
 

anotherkiwi

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2015
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I am very happy with the Michelin 26" x 1.75" semi-slick City tyres that I mounted before converting the bike. I was agreeably surprised by the lack of rolling resistance when it was still a push bike and with the motor they are just as good. I have no issues in the wet either they are nice and sticky.

My current downhill rolling record speed is 58.4 km/h (36.2 mph). At that speed my tyres are not the problem the front steel fork vibrates so much that the whole frame starts to resonate... I am looking for a smoother hill that is just as steep to see if I can top 60 km/h... :D
 

Kuorider

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 18, 2014
379
195
My current downhill rolling record speed is 58.4 km/h (36.2 mph). At that speed my tyres are not the problem the front steel fork vibrates so much that the whole frame starts to resonate.
At that speed the vibration may be your wheel out of balance or slightly out of round. Something is generating the resonance and the vibrating fork is the result rather than the cause. Balance is not usually a problem at normal bike speeds but the tyre valve can generate quite a force at 30 + as can one of those spoke reflectors.
 

anotherkiwi

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2015
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Yeah you may be right I do have a big reflector in the wheel. My impression was that the vibrations were coming from the road surface which has water drainage rivulets at that spot on the hill but wheel balance can not be ruled out.
 

Kuorider

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 18, 2014
379
195
Try on a smooth road if possible to confirm if the problem recurs. Are your wheels true? Even a slight wobble will set off a violent shimmy at speed. Take off the reflector and let the wheel turn slowly, it will settle with the heavy point at the bottom, wrap some strip solder round the spoke nipple opposite the heavy point and adjust this weight by trial and error until the wheel settles randomly. Fix the solder with a bit of tape and road test. Pay particular attention to your wheel bearing adjustment and condition and check carefully the steering head adjustment. Running over ridges at speed could certainly rattle your back teeth but should stop on hitting a smooth surface. On ridges an out of balance wheel will hop more readily and the combined forces become almost uncontrollable other than by slowing down. Your bike may be a bit tail heavy, as some ebikes inevitably are so a steering damper will help. Bin the reflector.
 

anotherkiwi

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2015
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Bin the reflector.
Oh dear more legal issues... :( French road code requires a yellow reflector in each wheel for night time riding, white tyre reflector is not enough. Of course the lycras don't have reflectors which they get away with by not going out at night.

Yes my wheel is true, that rim is one of the better quality bits of a sub 150€ bike - made in France to boot! I did a spin test and of course the reflector is on the opposite side to the valve and balance isn't too bad. The wheel that came with the kit, well, it is a double wall rim! That is positive isn't it :) seemed true and balanced when I mounted it.

I think that for this bike and for the moment I'll just have to brake on that section of road before getting to 55 kph.
 

Kuorider

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 18, 2014
379
195
Rules ! Here, bikes must be supplied with reflectors and bells but these can be discarded by the owner. Best take the easiest approach and slow down a bit.
 

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