Help me buy an ebike

[Mahi]

I am new to ebike, and to be frank, I didn't cycle much after my childhood. Having moved to a new town full of steep hills, I am thinking of buying an ebike but in budget as I may not use it for a longer time.

Does Apollo metis work better on hills? Halfords says it does, but what is everyone's opinion here? Or is there any other better one you would suggest in <800£?

Thanks in advance.

 

[saneagle]

Buy cheap, buy twice, or three or four times. Buying anything cheap, is never the best idea, and that goes for anything and everything.

Next point is buying cheap is pretty much always an online purchace, and more often then not coming from China, and if not then its from a company who is possibly not going to be there in a years time. With this boom of ebikes, many companies are starting up, claiming their cheapo Chinese shite is best and with a lot of bullshit, plenty of unrealistic pictures.

Try returning a bike to a company that doesnt care about bikes. To them its just a way to profit from the bike boom the pandemic brought. They have little interest and no facilities beyond a warehouse full of Chinese imported boxed up ebikes.
Worse is it the bike came direct from a Chinese company. Can you speak Chinese ?

You're entitle to you opinion, but I think it lacks judgement as in unfounded, especially with respect to bicycles and ebikes.

I personally have spent something like £30,000 on cheap ebike parts from China. I have never had a single part fail in service from normal uses, and out of all the bikes I built for other people, I never had anyone ever bring one back or call me about anything that went wrong with them. I had one noisy Xiongda motor that I fixed by regreasing. I burnt a couple of controllers by using motors that were too weak for their speed when I didn't fully understand design principles. I broke one motor cable when I crashed a bike and I broke one LCD bracket by hanging my 2kg lock on it when I ride. That's about it in 14 years of ebike building and riding. One more that I forgot: My first ebike got a broken frame because of a design fault. I got a free replacement under warranty from the UK Chinese seller. That bike lasted for many years thereafter.

I bought all that stuff from mainly BMSBattery, Greenbikekit, PSWPower, Topbikekit. Xiongda and Kevin Fang (BTN). They're all still trading. Out of all those orders, they sent me the wrong motor once, but I was building so much stuff at the time that I was able to use it on another project. I've never been disappointed with anything I ever bought from them.

I built my present bike with standard Chinese stuff ten years ago. I'm a millionaire and I have no family or commitments, so I can afford any bike I want. If I could find a better one than the one I have I'd buy it. I go to nearly every bike show to try all the latest bikes in case I can find something better, but I never do.

IMHO, the cheap stuff is simpler and more robust, so is more reliable and durable. It's also easier to maintain and get spare parts. That's especially true for cheap bikes.

One of the problems with buying cheap stuff from China is that you have to understand how it works. many of the complains we see here are because of badbly matched parts and installation mistakes. For some, that's a learning experience. You can't know everything.

 

[AndyBike]

You're entitle to you opinion, but I think it lacks judgement as in unfounded, especially with respect to bicycles and ebikes.

I personally have spent something like £30,000 on cheap ebike parts from China. I have never had a single part fail in service from normal uses, and out of all the bikes I built for other people, I never had anyone ever bring one back or call me about anything that went wrong with them. I had one noisy Xiongda motor that I fixed by regreasing. I burnt a couple of controllers by using motors that were too weak for their speed when I didn't fully understand design principles. I broke one motor cable when I crashed a bike and I broke one LCD bracket by hanging my 2kg lock on it when I ride. That's about it in 14 years of ebike building and riding. One more that I forgot: My first ebike got a broken frame because of a design fault. I got a free replacement under warranty from the UK Chinese seller. That bike lasted for many years thereafter.

I bought all that stuff from mainly BMSBattery, Greenbikekit, PSWPower, Topbikekit. Xiongda and Kevin Fang (BTN). They're all still trading. Out of all those orders, they sent me the wrong motor once, but I was building so much stuff at the time that I was able to use it on another project. I've never been disappointed with anything I ever bought from them.

I built my present bike with standard Chinese stuff ten years ago. I'm a millionaire and I have no family or commitments, so I can afford any bike I want. If I could find a better one than the one I have I'd buy it. I go to nearly every bike show to try all the latest bikes in case I can find something better, but I never do.

IMHO, the cheap stuff is simpler and more robust, so is more reliable and durable. It's also easier to maintain and get spare parts. That's especially true for cheap bikes.

One of the problems with buying cheap stuff from China is that you have to understand how it works. many of the complains we see here are because of badly matched parts and installation mistakes. For some, that's a learning experience. You can't know everything.

Vast majority, I mean 99% of all new queries on here are about cheapo tat thats developed problems in under a year.
"My charger is broken. My bike wont turn on etc etc"


Im not a millionaire, but I've been riding and building bikes for 30 years. Buy cheap to save money is a fallacy.

 

[saneagle]

Vast majority, I mean 99% of all new queries on here are
"My charger is broken. My bike wont turn on etc etc"

That's because people, who spent thousands on theire Bosch bikes take the to the dealer to be fixed and have to pay through the nose for it. They often come on here, but all we do is tell them to take it to the dealer because there's nothing they can do to fix it themselves.

Also, as I said before, a lot of people buy stuff without knowing about it, so they buy stuff that doesn't match or work with what they already have. It's pretty rare to get functional problems with stuff.

 

[Woosh]

Cheap bikes tend to rust. Even anodised parts such as suspension forks, outer cables, stems, saddles, propstands, brakes, chains, pedals, chains, rings and cranks.
Good bikes don't rust.
Most common subjects are how to derestrict my bike, how to add a throttle, how to replace my battery.

 

[saneagle]

Cheap bikes tend to rust. Even anodised parts such as suspension forks, outer cables, stems, saddles, propstands, brakes, chains, pedals, chains, rings and cranks.
Good bikes don't rust.
Most common subjects are how to derestrict my bike, how to add a throttle, how to replace my battery.

That's right. Cheap bikes have more steel parts, which are stronger and more durable, but they do go rusty, especially as any painting and plating is done cheaply too. The rust is more likely made worse by people leave cheap bikes outside more than they would an expensive one. Rust doesn't cause any functional problems as long as youkeep the bike serviced and moving parts suitably lubricated, though that doesn't seem to happen much.

 

[Woosh]

Cheap ebikes tend to be fitted with steel suspension forks. They are horrible new and terrible when rusted. If you have to buy a cheap bike, buy one without suspension fork.
Cheap bikes also come with horrible tyres. Replace them as soon as you can afford.
Replace also front rim brakes with disk brakes. Front rim brakes go through your rim much quicker on an ebikes than normal push bikes.

 

[saneagle]

Cheap ebikes tend to be fitted with steel suspension forks. They are horrible new and terrible when rusted. If you have to buy a cheap bike, buy one without suspension fork.
Cheap bikes also come with horrible tyres.

It's only the expensive cheap bikes that have suspension forks. "Horrible" is a matter of opinion. All the middle and low end suspension forks go rusty if you use them in the winter and leave your bike outside. Luckily, the rust doesn't affect the function unless you leave the bike outside for a long time without use, then they seize up, but can still be brought back to life if you care to.

 

[Woosh]

The rubber joints on the fork die in less than a year if you leave your bike to be rained on. I started selling £300 ebikes so I am not doing that again.
You keep your cheap bikes in your garage. That's why you don't see much wrong with them. After a year a two, cheap bikes aren't cheap anymore unless you stop pedalling and ride on throttle.
In 2012, I sold a woosh Angel bike to a woman living in a council house in Deal, on the Kent side of the Thames. A month later, she called , her bike stopped working. She has no other transport and the nearest bike shop is 5 miles away. Hatti drove the van over to Deal to deliver a new Angel with a storage bag. She learnt to look after her bike. 5 years later, she wanted another Angel, but I already stopped selling them. You can see why I stopped selling cheap bikes. It a financial suicide to provide good support to cheap bikes.

 

[Az.]

I think your discussion is purely academical and as such a bit detached from reality. At this moment good quality bikes are cheap bikes.

Vitus Nucleus 27 VR Mountain Bike - Blue | Wiggle

Buy your Vitus Nucleus 27 VR Mountain Bike - Blue from our Hardtail Mountain Bikes range at Wiggle. £649.99. Free delivery available.

www.wiggle.com

 

[Paul1962]

Let me add some comments to this subject as well though I do definitely not have as much experience as you guys do.

First of all, CHEAP and CHEAP isn't mandatorily the same. Cheap can mean poor components and poor workmanship, but cheap can also mean reliable though not newest technology components, acceptable workmanship, but price calculation is, as we say, "stitched with a hot needle".
In German language we have 2 different words for cheap. The bad cheap is BILLIG, the good cheap is PREISWERT.

If I look i.E. onto my eleglide, I have to say, the frame is made of aluminium, which isn't as durable as steel, but it doesn't rust. Furthemore I am someone who looks after his equipment as far as I can, on his own.
If someone needs to visit a workshop even for a flat tire, I would tell him: "Don't touch this bicycle. Go to next dealership and buy a mid-motor cycle in the 3500€ + region or look out for a model of 2 years ago which you might be able to grab for 2000. You will not get happy with my choice"

And talking about leaving the bicycle in the rain. Even bikes without motor shouldn't be left in the rain, but who leaves his electrically assisted bicycle in the rain for longer than half a day is to me, excuse my wording, an Idiot. The question you should ask those guys is:"Would you leave your Iphone in the rain as well?"
For sure they won't though this is also electrical equipment made in China.

Let me comment the fork stuff. Yes my fork is made of steel and I can not guarantee that the rubber sealings are going to last long, but who cares? If it's really broken though I do care I get myself a new one for 68€

Or I do invest a bit more and will have no trouble for the rest of my life.

In general I also heard comments besides the life expectation of it that the fork is technically shite.
Yes, compared to high-end forks with newest technology this might be the truth. But I don't compare with those.
I do compare with the first front-suspension bicycle I have bought for my son in 1999 and compared to this my fork is excellent.

But, as I already said, if you are going to buy an Ebike the first question you should ask yourself is: What do I want to do with that vehicle?

If the answer is going to be:"I want to cross the alps next summer and my planned mileage is about 1000 miles a month", forget the bikes below 1000 Pound. If you want to commute, let's say, 5 miles each distance, not too heavy slopes and besides this just replace the car for small grocery shoppings or do a 20 miles weekend tour with your kids or your wife (or both) and if you have a hands-on mentality there is no need to spend a fortune.

For me personally one important point in making the decision was also:

With one exception my most expensive car so far was 2000€ (Peugeot 206 CC, 16 yrs old)and (also with one exception) my most expensive motorcycle was 1200€ (BMW K100, 32 yrs old). Bearing that in mind a 3000€ Ebike was an absolute No-Go. Hey, we are talking about a bicycle with a motor, not more.

Take care

 

[Paul1962]

I think your discussion is purely academical and as such a bit detached from reality. At this moment good quality bikes are cheap bikes.

Vitus Nucleus 27 VR Mountain Bike - Blue | Wiggle

Buy your Vitus Nucleus 27 VR Mountain Bike - Blue from our Hardtail Mountain Bikes range at Wiggle. £649.99. Free delivery available.

www.wiggle.com

Wow, that would be a good choice to build an ebike on your own with a Tongsheng mid-drive

 

[Az.]

I want to cross the alps next summer and my planned mileage is about 1000 miles a month", forget the bikes below 1000 Pound.

I humbly disagree. Here comes advantage of DIY builds.

Nucleus VRS 1x10 Deore, hydraulic disc brakes, air fork for £250

Battery Hailong Max 48V 19.2AH On Samsung cells from PSW. £195 shipped from UK. You might need a spare battery in backpack.

TSDZ8 torque sensor motor from Woosh for £329. 750W road legal motor with 110Nm torque.

I would risk and take it to cross Alps. It is my dream really... maybe one day...

 

[AndyBike]

with a Tongsheng mid-drive

For some here thats a case of ....Covers ears....la la la la la

 

[Az.]

....Covers ears....la la la la la

Why?

Nucleus VR hydraulic disc brakes, air fork for £200
TSDZ2B motor. 250W 36V for around £200 from PSW. If you lucky and find in stock in UK, if not then shipped from Germany.
Battery 36V 12.5Ah on Chinese cells for £120 from PSW. Not the best, but decent enough.

All together around £520

Absolute bargain

 

[Paul1962]

I humbly disagree. Here comes advantage of DIY builds.

Nucleus VRS 1x10 Deore, hydraulic disc brakes, air fork for £250

Battery Hailong Max 48V 19.2AH On Samsung cells from PSW. £195 shipped from UK. You might need a spare battery in backpack.

TSDZ8 torque sensor motor from Woosh for £329. 750W road legal motor with 110Nm torque.

I would risk and take it to cross Alps. It is my dream really... maybe one day...

If it’s self-built I‘d agree, but with a finished off-the-shelf Pedelec in the 600ish Region I would not want to risk it

 

[Paul1962]

I 750W road legal motor with 110Nm torque.

Would 750 Watt be legal in th UK? Not in the EU

 

[Az.]

If it’s self-built I‘d agree, but with a finished off-the-shelf Pedelec in the 600ish Region I would not want to risk it

Yes. Unfortunately there is a gap on the market. There are no decent ready made ebikes on the market at affordable prices. You can get Chinese clankers like yours (sorry) or super expensive bikes with Shitmano/Bosch etc motors. And there is nothing in between.

 

[flecc]

Would 750 Watt be legal in th UK? Not in the EU

The law is identical here in the UK, 250 watt continuous power rating is the maximum allowed. Although we left the EU, all their laws we adopted during EU membership we transferred into a bill called the Great Repeal Bill, making them UK law too.

Now we can only change them one at a time individually through parliament, but we won't with transport matters since we want to keep our trade with the EU.
.

 

[Az.]

Would 750 Watt be legal in th UK? Not in the EU

There is no legal limit on motor power. There is 250W limit on continuous rated power which in practice is a sticker put on motor by manufacturer.



If my math is correct, this motor is 750W and yet still rated 250W.

Edit: You can load custom software into it and unlock it to 30A. Insane, but many have done that.
long story short high powered e-bikes are legal in Germany too. Go to nearest bike shop and look at expensive shiny Bosch e-bikes. Each single one has high powered motor with 250W sticker on it. Wink wink nudge nudge.

 

[guerney]

And talking about leaving the bicycle in the rain. Even bikes without motor shouldn't be left in the rain, but who leaves his electrically assisted bicycle in the rain for longer than half a day is to me, excuse my wording, an Idiot. The question you should ask those guys is:"Would you leave your Iphone in the rain as well?"
For sure they won't though this is also electrical equipment made in China.

This idiot's ebike is quite happy in rain for many hours, with no ill effects - I've regularly ridden in the rain to leave my BBS01B converted bike in the rain while I garden in the rain for 6 hours or more, then cycled back in the rain. My bike has survived 13 seconds of complete submersion of the motor, controller and most of the connctor plugs. It's a matter of protecting where water ingress may occur: I covered connectors with 4:1 self-adhesive marine heat shrink and/or self-amalgamating rubber tape, silicone sealant was lightly applied to the rubber gasket between the controller and motor before bolting those tightly together, throttle was omitted, both ends of my gear sensor are covered with self-amalgamating rubber tape, and my display has a rain hat. 4,060km+ cycled so far, a large proportion of those kms when it was raining.

And my OnePlus phone has a small dry bag.