Help me buy an ebike

[Mahi]

I am new to ebike, and to be frank, I didn't cycle much after my childhood. Having moved to a new town full of steep hills, I am thinking of buying an ebike but in budget as I may not use it for a longer time.

Does Apollo metis work better on hills? Halfords says it does, but what is everyone's opinion here? Or is there any other better one you would suggest in <800£?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Saracen]

I am new to ebike, and to be frank, I didn't cycle much after my childhood. Having moved to a new town full of steep hills, I am thinking of buying an ebike but in budget as I may not use it for a longer time.

Does Apollo metis work better on hills? Halfords says it does, but what is everyone's opinion here? Or is there any other better one you would suggest in <800£?

Thanks in advance.

If you GOOGLE mid drive or hub drive 100% of all sites inclusing magazine sites will say MID drive is best for hills and off road despite any other comments

"With a hub-drive eBike, the motor drives the wheel, which can spin very slow on a steep hill. When a motor is spinning slow and the rider is requesting lots of help from the hub motor, it can sometimes overheat, leading to a temporary shut-off (best-case), or permanent damage to the magnets inside (worst-case). "

Hub-Drive vs Mid-Drive eBikes

Read everything about Hub-Drive vs Mid-Drive eBikes and Bosch eBike Systems

www.bosch-ebike.com

Mid-Drive Pros
Generally speaking, mid-drives climb steep hills more efficiently than hub-driven e-bikes because they can use the bike’s existing geared drivetrain to take advantage of higher gear reduction for low-speed

If You're Considering an E-Bike, Let This Motor Guide Explain All They Have to Offer

Here, all you need to know about electric bike motors, pedal assist, hub motors vs mid-drives, and more.

www.bicycling.com

KEEP googling for reviews


Front-hub motors tend to be the preserve of electric bikes designed for commuting, such as electric hybrids and electric folding bikes. They’re also a common feature on cheap electric bikes.

Mid-mounted motors are found across all different types of electric bikes. They work particularly well for electric mountain bikes because the weight is central and low down

Electric bike motors explained: comparing Bosch, Shimano, Fazua, Yamaha, Specialized and ebikemotion systems

Do you know your Bosch from your Shimano Steps? Your Fazua from your Yahama?

www.bikeradar.com

It is fact that MID drives are better, I have yet to see an expensive bike, or off road mountain where strength and reliability are needed where the use a cheap hubn drive, don't take my word as I say google mid v hub drives

Also but the biggest battery you can Both my bikes are 750 watt, and if you can get external batteries not built in, when they redesign the frame next year AND the battery in the new bikes won't fit your old bike where will you get a replacement, external batteries fit millions the world over

Finally thanks to the AMAZING help here I am going to do a 4-5 day ride away next year and will carry my spare battery on a back frame mount, think of a spare and as said the LARGEST battery, 350watt may sound good at 20 miles that is JUST 10 miles in fact out, then back, no distance at all

PLEASE avoid cheap halfords Apollo and other bikes save for a decent make

 

[Saracen]

With your budget your limited to the bottom end of the new ebike market or perhaps 2nd hand or even conversion kits buying a bargain 2nd hand bike for the upgrade. the best vfm and probably result would be from converting a suitable donor bike imho as your able to select a kit with the best motor/battery combo for your needs. and fit to a bike also fitted to your needs.

I would have been ridiculed on another site for recommending this BUT I 100% AGREE, (can't offer alternative suggestions on the other site)

I had 2 bikes, Saracen and my Sanderson Life framed cruiser, not cheap with MY upgrades over the years, so blow a NEW electric bike, I went to Cogs Y Gogs in Wales and had mine E biked, never looked back

 

[Az.]

If you GOOGLE mid drive or hub drive 100% of all sites inclusing magazine sites will say MID drive is best for hills and off road despite any other comments

Actually in this link you posted:

If You're Considering an E-Bike, Let This Motor Guide Explain All They Have to Offer

Here, all you need to know about electric bike motors, pedal assist, hub motors vs mid-drives, and more.

www.bicycling.com

...they recommend 4 best e-bikes you can buy right now.

... 4 of them have hub motors.

 

[saneagle]

If you GOOGLE mid drive or hub drive 100% of all sites inclusing magazine sites will say MID drive is best for hills and off road despite any other comments

They don't. One German magazine tested crank-drive bikes against hub-drive ones up a mountain. The hubdrives won. Panasonic hub-motot first, then Bionx. Did you try either of those motors?

Facebook

www.facebook.com

Also, bikes with hub-motors won every category every year in the Ebike World Championshi hill climb in Bristol, despite some of the crank-drive bikes using professional riders against amateurs.

Apart from that, magazines get their money from advertisers. Logically, those that make the most profit have more money to spend on advertising. I learnt a long time ago never to trust what you read in any magazine or sponsored websites. It's best to try as many different ones as you can, then choose on the basis of your own experience. Unfortunately, you experience is very narrow, so you probably made the wrong choice, but at least you can enjoy your blissful ignorance.

 

[Az.]

Both my bikes are 750 watt

Can you elaborate please? As far as I remember you said elsewhere you used 250W Bafang motors and you made few quite strong comments against illegal bikes. It is quite confusing...

Finally thanks to the AMAZING help here I am going to do a 4-5 day ride away next year and will carry my spare battery on a back frame mount

That is interesting... please tell us more. Two batteries should keep you going whole day and what next? Do you plan charging at B&B, camping or have something different in mind?
Do you plan to travel light or with a trailer?

 

[Nealh]

Can you elaborate please? As far as I remember you said elsewhere you used 250W Bafang motors and you made few quite strong comments against illegal bikes. It is quite confusing...



That is interesting... please tell us more. Two batteries should keep you going whole day and what next? Do you plan charging at B&B, camping or have something different in mind?
Do you plan to travel light or with a trailer?

Az, he doesn't know his wh from his watts. I have a feeling he means 750wh batteries though I could be wrong.

 

[Nealh]

People believe what they want to believe , if one has a bent for a mid drive and has tunnel vision regarding them then you won't change someones perceived view of them .

 

[Saracen]

Can you elaborate please? As far as I remember you said elsewhere you used 250W Bafang motors and you made few quite strong comments against illegal bikes. It is quite confusing...



That is interesting... please tell us more. Two batteries should keep you going whole day and what next? Do you plan charging at B&B, camping or have something different in mind?
Do you plan to travel light or with a trailer?

Yes I clearly was talking about the battery earlier (read English) BOTH referred to BATTERY NOT MOTOR


Having Autism I do better than many here and unlike some never abuse or am rude, "Nealh" remember that

 

[flecc]

Yes I clearly was talking about the battery earlier (read English) BOTH referred to BATTERY NOT MOTOR


Having Autism I do better than many here and unlike some never abuse or am rude, "Nealh" remember that

Untrue, you are often very rude. On the internet the unnecessary use of capital letters and unnecessarily enlarged or boldened text are regarded as shouting and rude behaviour.

You frequently do all three, as above.
.

 

[Az.]

Yes I clearly was talking about the battery earlier (read English) BOTH referred to BATTERY NOT MOTOR

Maybe it was what you wanted to write, but it is not what you wrote. That is why I asked you to clarify. There is no need to raise your voice or get upset.
There is also no such thing like 750W battery. Did you mean 750Wh as suggested by Nealh?

 

[saneagle]

unlike some never abuse or am rude, "Nealh" remember that

Actually, you have been rude. You called me an idiot, so I reported you.

 

[Saracen]

Maybe it was what you wanted to write, but it is not what you wrote. That is why I asked you to clarify. There is no need to raise your voice or get upset.
There is also no such thing like 750W battery. Did you mean 750Wh as suggested by Nealh?

Yes than you,

 

[Nealh]

Still hiding behind the 'autism ' tag then.
I'm eccentric but don't hide behide the tag.
I tell/say things as I see it , if you aren't happy go elsewhere.

 

[throwawaychap]

Just a heads up on Eleglide e-bikes (although they seem to have vanished stock wise in the UK):

skip to minute 8:29 for BMS
skip to minute 11 ish for dead battery cells

I found this Spanish battery tech, who was hired to refurbish or rebuild a Eleglide battery.

Upon inspecting the battery components as he disassembled it, he concluded the BMS in it is not fit for purpose.

I don't understand anything about batteries, but it could be crucial information for someone who has one of those e-bikes or batteries.

 

[Paul1962]

Just a heads up on Eleglide e-bikes (although they seem to have vanished stock wise in the UK):

skip to minute 8:29 for BMS
skip to minute 11 ish for dead battery cells

I found this Spanish battery tech, who was hired to refurbish or rebuild a Eleglide battery.

Upon inspecting the battery components as he disassembled it, he concluded the BMS in it is not fit for purpose.

I don't understand anything about batteries, but it could be crucial information for someone who has one of those e-bikes or batteries.

Unfortunately I do neither understand nor speak spanish.
What exactly is he telling about BMS and does he have any alternative solutions?

 

[saneagle]

Unfortunately I do neither understand nor speak spanish.
What exactly is he telling about BMS and does he have any alternative solutions?

He didn't say much about the BMS other than that it was cheap Chinese shite. He obviously had his preferred one that he used for the rebuild. He didn't show the cause of the failure. He indicated that one cell-group was low, and said that the cells had failed, but the reason for them being low could be a bad weld, bad insulation of the nickel strips or a BMS fault that kept a balancing bleed resistor switched on.

Another thing he said was that he thought the switch and charge indicator LEDs were not needed because the battery doesn't self drain when it's detatched from the bike and the controller's LCD shows the charge state, but I think those comments are invalid. You need to switch the battery off before connecting it to the bike, otherwise the connector will burn due to inrush current into the controller's capacitors, and you need the charge indicator to check whether you remembered to charge the battery when it's off the bike. You don't want to take the battery all the way out to your bike in the garage, then struggle to get it back on its holder and locked in place, then switch on the LCD, only to see that you forgot to charge it, then you have the struggle to get it back off and carry it back to your charger. Also some controllers drain about 3w when the bike isn't being used, which is another reason you need the switch. His comments would only be valid if you had a decent modern controller with LCD and you never take the battery off the bike, but the battery manufacturer has no idea what you're going to do with the battery.

The battery looked very well made to me compared with other ones I've seen. You could see from the consistency and positioning of the welds that it was welded by a robot, so clearly factory made and not done by some Chinese guy in his garden shed. The wiring was very neat and logical. So, basically, his comments come down to he didn't like the BMS and the cells were unbranded., but even the branded ones can be fakes.

 

[Paul1962]

Thanks for translating. My Spanish is limited to „dos cervecas por favor“

 

[Az.]

Thanks for translating. My Spanish is limited to „dos cervecas por favor“

It has subtitles on.

 

[AndyBike]

They don't. One German magazine tested crank-drive bikes against hub-drive ones up a mountain. The hubdrives won. Panasonic hub-motot first, then Bionx. Did you try either of those motors?

It appears they were riding the bikes up a tarmac covered 'mountain'

The simple answer to this is buy from Woosh

I personally dont rate hub drives. Yes I see and accept their qualities, but I have my own take on ebikes.
But that isnt important.

Buy cheap, buy twice, or three or four times. Buying anything cheap, is never the best idea, and that goes for anything and everything.

Next point is buying cheap is pretty much always an online purchace, and more often then not coming from China, and if not then its from a company who is possibly not going to be there in a years time. With this boom of ebikes, many companies are starting up, claiming their cheapo Chinese shite is best and with a lot of bullshit, plenty of unrealistic pictures.

Try returning a bike to a company that doesnt care about bikes. To them its just a way to profit from the bike boom the pandemic brought. They have little interest and no facilities beyond a warehouse full of Chinese imported boxed up ebikes.
Worse is it the bike came direct from a Chinese company. Can you speak Chinese ?

I have no affiliation to Woosh. But I've watched how they interact with people on here asking questions, having problems and how those are sorted.

 

[Az.]

Buy cheap, buy twice, or three or four times. Buying anything cheap, is never the best idea, and that goes for anything and everything.

I hope it is not always the case. I am during process of buying a motor from Woosh and I think it is the cheapest option on the market (if you take into account discount for forum members). To be honest I am surprised it was only me who expressed interest in this offer.

It turns out you can get something cheap and from reputable source.