Hello from South Cambs - New to e-bikes

[Robert Stanford]

Hello everyone,

I have just taken delivery of a Bafang BSS001/B motor which I am installing on my 2012 Kona Minute cargo bike (http://2012.konaworld.com/asphalt_simplicity.cfm?content=minute#1). The plan is to use it for long distance touring with me providing most of the power on the flat and down hill, supplemented by the motor for headwinds and up hill.

Some of the challenges that I need to overcome (that I know about):

I imported my motor and it looks to be complete apart from an instruction book (does anyone know where I can lay my hands on a pdf and good installation video for the BBS001B?). I have found lots of online resource for the BBS001 and the /B doesn't look to be much different.


Battery choice - I'm working on 6WH/KM and plan to do extended (=< 150km/day) and shorter multi day trips wild camping in Scotland. I am thinking >1000KWH capacity - Have I got the maths right?

I am looking to buy/make a triangular battery to fit in the frame above the down tube (which is very tight for space). I have found a couple of batteries on Aliexpress that should do the job from established traders (>7 years with good feedback scores. I am keen not to burn my house down - Any recommendations/advice is welcome. Are there any good UK/EU battery builders who could build a battery at a competitive price?

I love the idea of using LifePo4 batteries (safety, longer capacity/life, no oxidation at full charge and quicker charge rates i.e. bigger range boost at pub lunch stops). I don't have the space for headway cells but there are a few higher density packs on Aliexpress. My instinct is to steer clear of these as they seem to be too cheap for the technology which probably means that the quality is poor - Have I got this right?

Sorry to ask so many questions. I suspect that there may be answers in other posts, apologies if they are obvious.

Thanks in advance,

Robert

 

[Benjahmin]

Space looks tight for the size of battery you want, without ending up with the bow legs of a cowboy!
Speak to Jimmy at Insat International/BGA reworking. An absolute battery geek who has built batteries for many on this forum, including myself.
Have you thought about two batteries run in parrallel? Maybe one could be mounted in the triangle and the other behind the seat post? Might mean fabricating your own cases.

 

[Woosh]

I imported my motor and it looks to be complete apart from an instruction book (does anyone know where I can lay my hands on a pdf and good installation video for the BBS001B?). I have found lots of online resource for the BBS001 and the /B doesn't look to be much different.

http://wooshbikes.co.uk/cdkit/BBS01Manual.pdf

and watch these 2 videos:
youtube.com/watch?v=akA1vg5fcwY
youtube.com/watch?v=irmyv9G9WyU

installation is easy, you need to remove the bottom bracket first. That's the difficult step. Sometimes, rust makes it difficult to remove, you may need a 1/2" driver or a biggish hammer or don't be shy to ask for help of a local bike shop.

 

[Nealh]

BBS01 is tiring and saps strength unassisted. Probably best used in low assist even on level terrain but you won't know this till you have ridden the conversion.
Lifepo4 is a bit old hat now we have lithium ion, which is somewhat lighter then lifepo4.
Though you can look at Eclipse bikes for lifepo4 and batteries or use Jimmy's services for a more bespoke battery.

For 150km a day 1000wh/28ah battery will suffice if you know you will only use 6wh/km though the figure could be higher.

 

[Robert Stanford]

http://wooshbikes.co.uk/cdkit/BBS01Manual.pdf

and watch these 2 videos:
youtube.com/watch?v=akA1vg5fcwY
youtube.com/watch?v=irmyv9G9WyU

installation is easy, you need to remove the bottom bracket first. That's the difficult step. Sometimes, rust makes it difficult to remove, you may need a 1/2" driver or a biggish hammer or don't be shy to ask for help of a local bike shop.

Thank you for your help,

I had already visited your and a number of other sites and seen the videos prior to buying the motor. Mine is the /B variant which has an output for lighting and a gear shift sensor (of which I understand there are two types: Derailleur and hub). I'm pretty sure that they are self evident but it would be good to have the manual to save me from making the wrong assumptions

I have recommended a couple of friends who live in Essex to visit Woosh, I am very impressed with Woosh bikes.

 

[Robert Stanford]

BBS01 is tiring and saps strength unassisted. Probably best used in low assist even on level terrain but you won't know this till you have ridden the conversion.
Lifepo4 is a bit old hat now we have lithium ion, which is somewhat lighter then lifepo4.
Though you can look at Eclipse bikes for lifepo4 and batteries or use Jimmy's services for a more bespoke battery.

For 150km a day 1000wh/28ah battery will suffice if you know you will only use 6wh/km though the figure could be higher.

Thanks for the heads up, I hope it doesn't take too much power in low assist. I have based my estimate on reports from ebike tourists using the BBS01 they could be stronger cyclists than me. I'd rather err on having to much capacity rather than too little.

Best regards,

Rob

 

[Robert Stanford]

Space looks tight for the size of battery you want, without ending up with the bow legs of a cowboy!
Speak to Jimmy at Insat International/BGA reworking. An absolute battery geek who has built batteries for many on this forum, including myself.
Have you thought about two batteries run in parrallel? Maybe one could be mounted in the triangle and the other behind the seat post? Might mean fabricating your own cases.

Thanks for the information. This is why I think the lower energy density of LifePo4 makes them problematic. I need to be able to take the battery off the bike for charging (lunch stops, B&B, hostels and camp sites). Although the bike will carry 300 pounds I'd like to keep the weight to a minimum. I've looked at Frog and rack mounts which give me the capacity I need but put weight high on the frame which isn't good for handling and compromise the load space.

There are triangular batteries that will fit:

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/EU-US-no-tax-1000W-36V-triangle-battery-36V-30AH-electric-bike-battery-with-free-bag/407696_32791181223.html

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/EU-US-no-tax-1000W-36V-lithium-ion-battery-25AH-e-scooter-36V-25AH-Triangle-battery/32803700038.html

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Triangle-style-ebike-lithium-battery-36v-20ah-lithium-ion-bicycle-36v-1000w-electric-scooter-battery-for/604490_32654913173.html

But they are going to be a gamble. I've thought about multiple lower capacity batteries (15-20AH) but I am not sure about charging as I don't want to be carrying two chargers and have to work out if I can charge two batteries in parallel with one charger (constant V&C suggests yes with the BMS managing the charge). A larger capacity battery would be less stressed and allow me to run at 80% in the mid band to prolong the life. Two batteries would give redundancy though if one fails.

I've looked at Insats site and will give them a ring.

Thanks again,

Rob

 

[Robert Stanford]

Still no manual but this is the most comprehensive installation video I've seen so far

 

[peter.c]

I think you will not find a manual most seem to be how too on you tube but woosh or luna cycles are the ones I started with ,if you get stuck someone one here always seems to be able to help

Like you I wanted an all day battery and have tried a triangle at 27 ah it does the job almost, one draw back the charge time to full approx. 8+ hours and the other is mounting in the triangle now I have two 14ah packs and two chargers if it is only a short trip only need to take one

 

[Fat Rat]

Hi
Welcome to the site

 

[Robert Stanford]

I think you will not find a manual most seem to be how too on you tube but woosh or luna cycles are the ones I started with ,if you get stuck someone one here always seems to be able to help

Like you I wanted an all day battery and have tried a triangle at 27 ah it does the job almost, one draw back the charge time to full approx. 8+ hours and the other is mounting in the triangle now I have two 14ah packs and two chargers if it is only a short trip only need to take one

Thank you Peter,

Thanks for validating the problems that I thought I might have. I'm not keen on fast charging (still 5 hours for a 27AH battery) due to the shortening effect that it has on battery life. Higher charge rates is one of the things that attracted me to LifePo4 cells.

Where do you carry your batteries now?

Have you worked out your wh/kilometer?

Tanks again for the advice.

Rob

 

[peter.c]

The watts per hour is a piece of string I have never got it to go below 36.3 volts I am knackered before it ever shows signs of stress four hours hard ride on level 9 full motor power will not make it sag but I like the extra buzz of a full charged pack so always have recharged the watt meter sat higher than you would expect 395 peak cruise 170 ish down to 60watt at cut off before keep current adjusted
I had it on a steel frame with a alfine hub and could not lift it over a five bar gate now the road bike has a 21ah ga celled tiger shark from insat [jimmy] about half the weight now

The two battery is on the mtb full sus and means drive to the place to ride so the spare battery is in the car

ps the size on the tri angle in a bag is not always what you get

 

[Nealh]

With a laden bike and heavier battery weight of 27ah or more 10wh/per mile will be a more meaning full calc, if you are super fit and have a natural high cadence then a lower wh/mile will be possible.

 

[Sturmey]

I weight approx 90 kg and probably not the fittest, and I find that about 9wh per km (or about 15 per mile) @ max 25 km/hr speed seems to be my battery consumption. I can do better if I lower the speed, but this takes some of the fun out of cycling.

 

[Robert Stanford]

Thank you all for the helpful advice.
I installed the motor today and tested it with 3 lead acid batteries in series. All seems to be working O.K.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/7fmEp1gaMWDYQHve6

I've ordered a cheap 20AH battery to see how many miles I get. Once I have a better understanding of my requirements I will invest in a quality battery of the right capacity.

I want to replace the 44T chainring that I ordered with the motor with a 36T. This will give me a top speed (unpowered) of 22MPH with a cadence of 90RPM which is plenty fast enough with a laden bike. I'd also like to move the chainline about 5mm inboard as the chainring currently sits where the 36T originally fitted was, not good for chain wear in low end gears.

Does anyone have any recommendations?

Thanks again for all your help,

Rob

 

[peter.c]

The smallest to get alignment was a 42 teeth lekkie on my last build any smaller fouls on the motor, now have a 36 and a 38 not used learnt the expensive way trail and error self build style in the end I had enough bits to build another whole bike

 

[Robert Stanford]

The smallest to get alignment was a 42 teeth lekkie on my last build any smaller fouls on the motor, now have a 36 and a 38 not used learnt the expensive way trail and error self build style in the end I had enough bits to build another whole bike

Thank you, you have saved me from making the same mistake. I rode the bike unpowered today (don't have a battery yet) and its OK on the flat with less resistance from the motor than turning it by hand would suggest. Any tips on spiders that I could use to move the chain line 4-5mm closer to the bike frame as the angle is a bit steep when on the lowest cog (same as it was with the 36T but there was also a 28T to change down to).

Guess if I want a lower range I will have to change the cassette (and possibly the derailleur arm). I will see how it rides under power before I do anything else.

Thanks again,

Rob

 

[peter.c]

The 42lekkie was the only one that lined up on mine with a 1.5mm spacer added tried 4 different spiders without joy
my road bike has an alfine 8 it is a lot easier just to line up one cog and it is possible to run a 16 or a 20 or larger on the rear

 

[Robert Stanford]

Please can anyone help with the clicking noise that my motor is making when I turn the pedals. I have started a thread in the technical forum:

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/bafang-bbs01-b-clicking-noise-when-rotating-pedals-by-hand.32433/#post-456412

Best regards,

Rob