Hello from Newbie - kit advice

[mr_s81]

Hi All,

Firstly, can I say how impressed I've been with the forum in the short time I've been on here. The e bike world is new to me, so I am learning all the time!

Basically, I have been biking for around 5 years ago now. I have a decent level of fitness which has mostly been attained through commuting almost 20 miles per day to work and back. The route is relatively flat with a few little nasty hills nearer home.

The reason I'm looking at converting one of my bikes to an e bike is so that I can continue commuting by bike in the winter. Normally, when the weather gets worse at the end of October and the clocks go back I put the bike away until March and set up the turbo trainer. Now I am thinking if I had more assistance to deal with the headwinds that I inevitably seem to encounter en route and could get to and from work a little quicker, maybe an e bike wouldn't be a bad idea.

I have two bikes which can be possibly adapted.

1. My PX kaffenback with BB5 brakes
2. Carrera Fury with hydraulic brakes

Ideally I'm looking for a set up which is relatively discreet, waterproof (as I'd obviously be commuting in the rain) and reliable. I had thought about a BBS02 for the Carrera Fury, but then wondered if I could use something else to adapt the PX (which already has mudguards and a rack fitted) without having to purchase the same for the Fury. I know the road bike causes more issues with throttle position etc, but again I may be being naive, but having a throttle is not critical to me as I intend to use PAS 99.9% of the time as I want to maintain my fitness on some level.

If I went BBS02 or BBSHD, I know I would be looking at circa £1k for this kind of set up. I'm wondering however if this would be overkill as I'm unlikely to want to go much over 25-30 mph (max) on the road as I don't want to attract the attention of the local constabulary? At the same time, is having a powerful motor like the BBSHD run at a much lower rate better for longevity than running a smaller motor at its limits?

Sorry for the long preamble for my first post, but any advice would be much appreciated!

Thanks

Ian

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Assuming that you don't care about legality, and depending on what gears you have on the Kaffenback. I'd go with a Q100H (freewheel gears) or Q128C (cassette gears) with a 48v downtube battery of your choice. Around 12 Ah would be about right. A 14 amp sinewave KT controller with an LCD and PAS would complete it to give you the perfect kit. You don't need a throttle with that system, but I'd buy one anyway. Get one of those little handlebar extensions for mounting lights. Stick the controller in one of those tool bags that sit under/behind the seat and leave the throttle in there. If ever there's an emergency, like loose crank, pedal falls off, gear cable breaks, you fall of or anything like that that stops you from pedalling normally, get the throttle out and clamp it to the mount, and you'll still be able to complete your journey. Obviously, you need the allen key to clamp the throttle, so leave one of those in the bag as well.

I wouldn't recommend a crank-drive for that journey. I can't see any advantage, but I can see plenty of disadvantages. If you do go for one, you don't need anything more than a 250W one. The more powerful ones are more likely to give you problems with your power train.

Incidentally, for regular commuting and long rides, it's best to take some tools with you. I always carry a multi-tool, a pump, a puncture kit and a spare tube. I carry them in a storage bottle of which there's a few different types. you can get bottle holders that fit anywhere on your bike if you have a battery on your down-tube. this is the one that i presently use. It opens up and holds all the tools very well ordered. With the cylindrical ones, you have to shake everything out each time you want something, and they get jammed in the neck:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Kit-Capsule-Bottle-Cage-Storage-Bag-Bicycle-Tool-Cycling-Bike-Case-Box-7679-/322610327949?hash=item4b1d12f18d:g:-Z8AAOSwhvFZCthA

 

[tommie]

Hello fellow countryman and welcome,

pretty sound advice from d8veh,
though a lot depends on where you`ll be using the bike mostly. I live out in the co. down countryside and tbh my 250watt hub bike just doesnt cut it on these hilly roads. Nice on the flat and gentle gradients but under strain and noisy on the hills we have around here.
Now d8vehs Q128c is maybe a more modern animal and one i`ll try in the future
I have three ebikes in total, one a 250w hub, the other two BBS02 and HD conversions respectively.
Also imo an ebike must be whisper silent, that hub bike of mine when its under pressure is like a milk-float coming round the corner.
The latest BBS HD kit comes in around £540 or so, it will climb trees and you won`t hear it doing so.
Very important with any ebike you get a decent battery, 17.5 Ah at £425 approx. So you`re looking at £1k

This is my latest HD conversion on a Whyte Malvern i got off Ebay..

Changed a couple of other bits and pieces at the time...
Discs to 203mm.. 180`s would do
12 - 32 cassette, not as user friendly as the Alfine 8 IGH on my BBS02
KMC X8 chain
850C optional display (i`ve seen it pulling well over 1200watts on these hills)
New Schwalbe tyres, mudguards, pedals, Nexus grips, lights etc etc...

Any of the BBS range is programmable to your own individual taste. The HD for example comes from the factory set at 30amps, it will run all day at that with no fuss, but you can pull that back and alter the PAS levels with a cable and laptop

 

[mr_s81]

Thanks for the reply guys. Two quite conflicting recommendations!

I had ordered a BBS02 and then decided to cancel as I was unsure whether it would be too much for the 10 speed road bike. I had thought about putting it on to the Carrera Fury, but then had to factor in the extra costs of buying another pair of mudguards, rack etc. I know the output can be reduced, but I don't fancy snapping chains and destroying cassettes on the Kaffendale. The current drive train is a 10 speed SRAM rival.

With this is mind. Would I be best going for a hub over a mid drive? What are the major disadvantages of the mid drive @d8veh ? Will the Q128c provide ample power for my needs? As for the tools, I agree wholeheartedly. I have all of the things you mention stuffed into the saddle bag and panniers!

Loving the Whyte Malvern @tommie . Looks a very neat setup! Nice to hear from a fellow NI ebiker. I'm based up near Coleraine, so although there are a few hills in the area (Glens of Antrim etc), the majority of it is fairly rolling. Certainly not as hilly as Co. Down. We like holidaying in Newcastle at least a few times in the summer, so I can appreciate what you mean about the terrain!

In terms of weatherproofing, have you had any issues with water ingress or do you tend to avoid the rain. This is a bit of a concern given I'm looking for something to use in the (even wetter than normal) weather!!

 

[rollinsonphilip]

hi nice to meet you

 

[Deleted member 4366]

the Q128 at 48v will have more than enough power for your needs. i live in hilly Shropshire and most of my rides involve Ironbridge gorge, which has some hills up to 30%. That motor could get me up those hills when i was 100kg with help from fairly hard pedalling. On a flat ride, it cruises at about 22 mph on level 3 of 5. My controller is only 14A, but you can get one with 17A or 20A if you think you need more power. Assistance stops at around 28 mph. That's with 26" wheels. It'll be proportionally faster with 700c wheels. AFAICT, reliability of these bafang CDs doesn't match hub-motors. I've had to put new controllers and gears in some. Everybody that I personally know with one has had a problem of some sort, though all were fixable.

The disadvantages of a CD are that if there's any problem with your drive train, you're knackered. A powerful CD can mash your gears and chain when you get your shifting wrong. Also, the constant crashing of your gears becomes tedious, though it can be mitigated a bit by adding a £50 gear sensor. Lastly, you have to be in the right gear all the time and if you have to do an emergency stop, you can get serious trouble trying to start up in a too high gear. I snapped a gear in two doing exactly that, which left me stranded. The lower your power the less problems you get. That's why I say stick with a 250w one if you go that route. From what you've said, I'm pretty sure that it will be sufficient power.

For a lazy or unfit person, a BBSHD is an easy way to get to work fast, but a regular cyclist with fairly flat rides doesn't need anywhere near that sort of power. 250w is enough to glide you along at 20 mph without pedalling. With light pedalling that goes up to about 22 mph and with steady pedalling, around 24 mph. Even the crappy hub-motors can give you 500w at the back wheel, and they can sustain maybe 350w without over-heating. That's probably similar to the 250w BBS01 CD. It's important to get one with the right speed though. That's the most important characteristic of a hub-motor. That's one advantage of CDs that you can get high torque at low speed and high speed from the same motor, though each time you change up a gear, the torque goes down, so you get assistance at 30 mph, but you don't have enough power to keep you there, unless you have a BBSHD.

One last thing. I've experimented with all sorts of power and speed with electric bikes. I probably like to go faster than most as most of my life I've had sporting motorbikes, like GSXR1100, RGV250, YPVS 350, VFR 400. the guys I rode with could never keep up when I wasn't even trying. On a bicycle, I find that 22 mph is about optimum. If you go faster, you run into problems of tyre adhesion and brakes. Also, you become very noticeable as being a powered bike. Many people, including the police, know that there's a 15.5 mph assistance limit. If you go on the same route every day standing out like a sore thumb, sooner or later somebody will get jealous or annoyed , and you'll get reported. At 22 mph, you still look like a cyclist, though a moderately fast one. that's another reason I think it would be better to convert the road bike. Not only is it more efficient, so you need less power, but it doesn't look out of place motoring along in the mid 20s.

 

[mr_s81]

Thanks @d8veh , that's really useful. I think you've sold me on the idea of a hub motor. Definitely sounds more in keeping with what I'm looking for.

Sorry to be a pain, but would you be able to link me what I need to buy to get this set up?

Cheers

Ian