Hello! ..and what to select

[Steven Brandist]

Hello everyone,

I must admit I've been lurking here for quite a while now. Keeping my ears and eyes open for what to get when the time came.

I've been what many would consider a serious cycle user since 2000 when the second car was sold. For a quite a while I rode a recumbent, then a Birdy folder (which I still have) and now a mainland Europe spec Trek Navigator (LED automatic lighting is to be recommended! ...and the Schwalbe Marathon Plus' have never let me down).

I've been considering an electric assist for sometime. The main reason is to get the travel time down, I logged some data earlier in the year. 99% of my cycling is commuting on the same route. North Leicester to Loughborough along a mainly by-passed route, but is hilly, this explains the data I hope!

Total distance: 9.16miles each way. 5 days a week.

Best time: 37.01 minutes
Best average speed: 14.2 mph

Worst time: 59.18 minutes
Worst average speed: 9.0 mph

I've subscibed to the excellent A to B for many years. If they say something is good it's generally a sure bet. Although they do have their moments and blinkered hates sometimes.

I've settled my sights on the Ezee range - the range, the destricted speed and as I work in Loughborough, 50 Cycles is only a couple of miles away.

My target is the Torq/Forza/Forte. In fact thats the problem, which one. Its a bit strange to have the spare cash in the first place to buy one, then not sure which one to go for!

Is the Forza worth the extra £150 for the suspension forks and (on paper) better brakes? At the moment I'm favouring the Torq as its seems to be a stable design with no massive reports of problems and it's motor is quieter than the Forza/Forte.

Which ever one I go for the tyres will need changing to Marathon Plus. Any comments to help me are greatly appreciated!

Interestingly I live nearly opposite a friend of Ian, who seems to visit quite regularly. Having seen his homemade rear light with my own eyes, I can tell you IT'S VERY BRIGHT... and that was in strong sunlight.

Regards
Steven

 

[DBCohen]

Well, they say the Torq is one to avoid if you have a lot of hills, as it is geared for speed, not climbing.

However, given you have 50Cycles on the doorstep, so to speak, have you contacted them to discuss trialling all of the bikes you are considering? I would imagine you can't beat the hands on experience!

I bought my Cadence on spec, and I have not been disappointed, but that was only after trying and failing to get a convenient trial organised.

David.

 

[flecc]

Given that it's fairly flat in that area, the Torq would be ideal for good average speeds, and it's comfortable with hills up to 10% for most users, and for an experienced and presumably fit cyclist like you, 12% (1 in 8) would be no bother.

On your local territory it will spend nearly all it's life at the 15 mph point, plus whatever you add, if it's run restricted, but if derestricted you could run at 20/22 mph in all level areas and rarely drop below 18 mph. However, the range suffers if derestricted.

The Forza will do all of that, and add better steep hill performance, and that's it's main benefit in performance terms. Of course the suspension forks make the ride more comfortable in two ways, not only in ironing out the bumps, but in absorbing the motor weight bounce which can create discomfort through the handlebars on the Torq, due to it's rigid forks.

The Forte is now restricted only.

As DBCohen says, have trial rides if you can.
.

 

[Ian]

Hello and Welcome Steven,

as we've met you already know of my high regard for the Torq and as I'm not in the market for a new bike I've not looked at the Forza/Forte so can't really comment other than to say take a test ride.

The only serious hills on your route are those either side of the A6/A46 roundabout and as an experienced cyclist you'd have no problem tackling them at 17-18 mph on a de-restricted Torq as I have done many times. Perhaps as a purely pedal cyclist you know of other lesser hills that I've not noticed.

 

[Brangdon]

I considered a Forza, but was put off by the "ingenious cruise control system". It sounds like you have to keep pedalling to get any assist. The Forte was temporarily out of stock and I didn't like the look of the Torq (I know, I'm so uncool), so I ended up with the cheaper Liv. With only 3 gears that probably wouldn't be enough bike for you.

I'd recommend you contact 50cycles and arrange for a test session.

 

[BillM]

The Ezee Assistance control on the Forza (the "cruise control") is perhaps the best feature....feeling chipper set it low and a degree of rider effort is required. Set it at high and very little effort is required of the rider - even on steepish hills - and 15 mph is sustainable for as long as the battery range
allows. It really does allow you to dial in the degrre of assistance required.

 

[DBCohen]

It really does allow you to dial in the degrre of assistance required.

Is the 'dial' still that incredibly ugly "50's brain trust" box?

 

[Steven Brandist]

Thanks everyone, it's a great to have such knowledgle on tap.
Those kind of MPH figures seem quite outlandish to me - I'm not doubting you at all, they just sound absolutely bonkers! ..and to think I was considering going over to the 'darkside' of a petrol powered Moped (too much red tape and my Wife, then my Mother ganged up on me)... but they'll allow me to ride at +20 mph on a bicycle

The Torq is much more impressive in the 'flesh'. I was most impressed when Ian showed me round his. Why 50 Cycles persist in keeping those out-of-date photos on their website beats me.

I might consider the Forza, I can see that the suspension forks would help, especially as I've a bit a RSI wrist type injury (stop sniggering at the back) that pops up every now and then. Sitting more uprightly helps, so hopefully the adjustable stem will allow enough height, if not a stem/handlebar change is on the cards. Again hopefully they'll be enough spare electrical cable to do this.

I agree that the 'Assistance factor' dial does look like something out of a 1950's laboratory or perhaps off a toaster. Sounds like it sort of works if you listen to A to B.

Is it true that the Torq and Forza offer the same un-restricted performance? When the Forza is in un-restricted mode, is the 'Assistance factor dial' disabled? I must admit that I'm talking myself into a Forza. If you're going to be spending at least £1200, whats an extra £150?

My next step is to contact 50 Cycles and get my bum on some saddles.

 

[flecc]

Yes, the Torq and Forza were neck and neck at the Presteigne event (race) earlier this year, the Torq just pipping the Forza to it at the post. The only effective performance difference is that the derestricted Forza has a nominally 40% higher power rating, though in fact it's maximum output is roughly 18% higher than the Torq's, but both geared for the same speeds.

To get the full performance on the Forza with the EAF, it's just a matter of dialling in the maximum. All the lower settings are just restrictors, limiting power in the interests of greater range.
.

 

[Django]

Hi,

I have ridden a Forza and own a Torq. My (personal and subjective) recommendation is the Torq for the following reasons:

Firstly, without the sprung forks the Torq gives you more feel through the handlebars. I want to sense the road surface, to interact with it, rather than just glide through it (must be the philosopher in me).

Secondly, I really do not like having to pedal to gain assitance. Every now and then on the Torq I can just lift my head, stop peddling and cruise along for a while enjoying the scenery. I want to be in control and I want to decide when I have power (must be the motorcyclist in me).

Thirdly, related to the above and springing from it, that split second lag between stopping peddling and the motor cutting out almost put me through the back of 50 Cycles' workshop. OK, I would get used to it and think ahead but in an emergency situation I bet I could stop more quickly on a Torq. Again the Forza seemed to deny me full control.

All told, the Torq gives me an immediate riding experience with excellent feel and total control. By contrast the Forza felt distant, as though it was more important than me and it had the right to make the riding decisions.

I am fully aware that this is all purely subjective and I know there will be some rolling eyes, particularly at my comment about 'feel', but there is my opinion and I for one certainly wouldn't do a straight swap for the more expensive model.

The test rides will be crucial.

Cheers,

Django

 

[flecc]

I certainly agree with all of that Django.
.

 

[Steven Brandist]

Hi Django,

No eyes rolling here about 'feel'. Riding a bicycle isn't like sitting in a car, its an interactive experience involving all senses. You know your alive while riding a bicycle, the cold on your face, the noises around, a place to think... (you've got me a it now).

As I suspected all along the Torq has been stable design for sometime now with a straight forward control system. Your comments about the 'Assistance/toast brown-ness level' echo exactly what A to B state. They hated it.

 

[Ian]

I'm not rolling my eyes either Django, I agree with everying you've said, particularly the comments about feel which is one of the reasons I like my Torq so much. I did find that replacing the stock tyres with Schwalbe M+ did improve that already present sense of feel and handing, not to mention the peace of mind from their resistance to punctures.

I also own a Sprint and while it has no EAF the bike does not have the same responsive feel as the Torq, something that is difficult to describe but very apparent to an enthusiastic rider. I'm not surprised that you found the forza to lack feel with its slightly heavier weight, sus forks and EAF control.

 

[BillM]

Well I like my Forza 1950's space age dial. It works as well and looks as good as my 1950's design Dualit toaster! Good designs allied to good taste always win out!

 

[flecc]

Well I like my Forza 1950's space age dial. It works as well and looks as good as my 1950's design Dualit toaster! Good designs allied to good taste always win out!

"In the eye of the beholder" springs to mind Bill, each to his (her) own, eh?
.

 

[Ian]

Well I like my Forza 1950's space age dial. It works as well and looks as good as my 1950's design Dualit toaster! Good designs allied to good taste always win out!

Everyones desires and needs are different and the Ezee range does a pretty good job of addressing most peoples wants. I believe all of the Ezee designs are good in their differing ways and anyone choosing one is showing good taste combined with common sense.

 

[hobo1]

Everyones desires and needs are different and the Ezee range does a pretty good job of addressing most peoples wants. I believe all of the Ezee designs are good in their differing ways and anyone choosing one is showing good taste combined with common sense.

Very well put Ian.

Cheers, David.

 

[DBCohen]

Everyones desires and needs are different and the Ezee range does a pretty good job of addressing most peoples wants. I believe all of the Ezee designs are good in their differing ways and anyone choosing one is showing good taste combined with common sense.

Ian, very true. Their range is broad and encompasses a variety of styles. However, it is worth pointing out that 50Cycles has ceased properly promoting the full range now, and is concentrating on just 6 bikes - despite the fact that they can get the other models when a customer burrows through the small print to find them and asks.

My point about the EAF dial is that, considering how strongly the feature is being promoted, I find it odd that the control looks like a bit of an afterthought. We all love a bit of aftermarket tinkering (all hail the mighty Flecc!) but when paying full whack I would have expected something that looks a little more integrated with the bike, is all.

 

[Steven Brandist]

I've finally test ridden a Torq.

I visited 50cycles the other day. I can now believe the performance claims of the bike, this was a de-restricted example. The acceleration is excellent away from a standstill and when it gets up to speed it stays there. Assistance is needed from a standstill as the gear ratios are knee-cap poppingly high. Too high for me, I like to have a quick cadence. I now fully understand the mods owners have performed in this area. Off power the bike felt hugely overweight, slugglish and overgeared. The sluggish-ness was probably down to the tyre inflation (more on this later).

I did try it briefly in 'pedelec' mode, and didn't like it one bit. The delay in power in both starting and ceasing pedalling just didn't feel right. I'd prefer to be in direct control to combine the motor and my output. It seems to me that the Torq isn't a electric assist bike, but an electric bike with human assistance!

The example I was given to ride, was... well, I'll let you make up your mind.
It seems to be one thats been kicking around for while. I think I can forgive the rattly & dirty chain, poor gear indexing, effectively useless rear brake, juddering front brake, non-functioning cycle computer and about 20psi in the tyres. Thats just bad maintenance, well, apart from the juddering bit.

It may have been a bad advert, but I can see past that. The performance of the bike is what I wanted to test - and it passed those.

I didn't get to ride anything else, not really sure why. I didn't ask.
But I had kind of already dismissed the other models. The matt black Forza with its EAF toaster controls and no twistgrip simply isn't for me for reasons above.

So, on balance full marks to the Torq, and I do intend on placing an order at some point in the future, although it would have been nice to ride better example.

 

[flecc]

Thanks for the report Steven.

The Shimano roller rear brake is really only good for routine gentle slowing down, although it can lock the wheel if pressure is maintained, the ramp action building up the braking force in time. Shimano's rated limit for this brake type is 100 kilos gross, so the average rider and the Torq together bring it up to about that, the edge of it's capability.

The front brake is necessary for all quicker/emergency braking action.

Later bikes have had some mods to the front brake to improve the anti-judder aspects. Twenty pounds tyre pressure is far too low of course, but many owners run at the lower pressure limit around 45lbs to compensate for the rigid fork action on rough roads. Like most run of the mill Chinese tyres, the standard Kendas have fairly high rolling resistance, and a better tyre like the Schwalbe Marathon Plus which many owners use for their puncture resistance reduces that rolling resistance considerably.
.