Heinzmann Kits

[Ian_Fearn]

Hello all,

I'm completely new to this and i've got some probably stupid questions

I've got a Cannondale F1000 mountain bike which i really love and thought it would be an ideal candidate for a Heinzmann kit i've seen. My commute to work is about 8 miles each way and i'd love to do my bit for congestion and the environment.

So my questions are:

Will the Heinzmann motor power me and the bike along without assistance? I understand about the 200W max legal power output.

How long would the battery last roughly? No really major hills but i do often battle against the wind on some pretty open sections of road and i'm about 11ish stone.

How long would the battery take to charge?

Thanks, Ian

 

[Ian]

Hi Ian, while I have no specific knowlege of the Heinzmann I understand it is quite powerful and should give performance comparable to a decent purpose built electric bike. That being the case it should power you unassisted under most conditions, perhaps needing some help on the steeper hills. Don't be misled by the 200W legal limit (Actually 250W in the EU, in which we are), that is a nominal figure, the actual maximum being 2 or 3 times that figure when hill climbing.

The battery should manage a one way leg of your 8 mile commute but a return journey may well be too much without putting in some legwork, others with Heinzmann experience may be able to be more specific on that and the battery charge time, although I'd expect it to be 3-4 hours.

 

[Ian_Fearn]

Thanks for that Ian.

Being new to this i'm really thinking that my first target would be a kit that i could go to work and back on without pedalling and without a charge. I've got no particularly steep hills on the journey but like i said the wind resistance would quite easily make up for that but i'm not against pedalling on those sections.

I've seen various info about batteries but different websites quote different ranges.

Does anybody have any experience of an ultimate electric bike? If i could get one for commuting and taking me into town plus local journeys it would completely change my lifestyle but 20 miles would be my required range.

 

[Ian]

Many suppliers quote somewhat optimistic ranges on their websites, in reality very few people manage to achieve anything like 20 miles without pedaling and I think this would be the case with the Heinzmann with its older technology. Of course it is battery capacity that limits range and it would be possible to carry additional batteries, although this would mean a big increase weight and additional cost.

Another factor governing range is battery age, I'm not sure what type Heinzmann supply but modern lithium battery types exhibit quite a rapid loss of capacity and a battery could easily lose it's ability to give the required range after a few months of use. NiMh batteries are better in this respect but will still lose capacity with age so it's as well to start with something in reserve.

A moderate amount a pedaling will considerably increase the range and at least bring your 20 mile target within reach, hopefully someone with Heinzmann experience will be able to be more specific about a realistic range expectation.

 

[aaannndddyyy]

I have a Heinzmann NiCd kit 250 watt motor FWD, 36volt 5 amp NiCd battery, it has a very high toque and a range of about 15 miles with a little light pedaling. Hinzmann make a lot of kits with different powered motors with ether NiCd or NiMh batteries some are more for toque and others for speed, the NiCd charger charges in around two hours, NiMh take between 2.5 and 4.5hours to charge there is a lot more info here. Kinetics - The Heinzmann Motor

 

[Ian_Fearn]

Cheers aaannndddyyy, would you say the Heinzmann kit is worth buying then? I fancy the 23mph version with the juiciest battery possible.

Am thinking that a Brompton might make sense for me though having read this website. I cant seem to get a good feel for how the Nano kit really is on the Brompton.

Does anybody know if theres a supplier in the midlands area? I'm in Derby.

 

[aaannndddyyy]

I also have an ezee Sprint a Wisper and a Giant Lafree at the moment, the Heinzmann has the most toque, but is the heaviest, slowest, and nosiest of the four bikes and also the most expensive out of the four, the other three are complete bikes, if you can find one s/h like I did at a reasonable price great but new is a little expensive in my opinion, saying that the motor electrics cable connection batteries are all top of the range and will last a very long time.
A friend of mine recently brought a kit from Kinetics after taking a ride on mine, he went for the 5oo watt rwd 36v NiMh kit 23mph, cost around 1000 pounds, he did the whole deal over the phone the people were very friendly and helpful, it took about six weeks from ordering to arriving at the door .

 

[Ian_Fearn]

I really take your point about buying a complete bike on a value for money point of view but at the moment i've got a cracking Cannondale that i'm not using because my daily routine is too tiring I chuck something like £80 a week of fuel into my gas guzzling car so it doesnt take long to recoup a grand for the kit!

What sort of range does your mate get with his 500watt kit? I really need to have a go on one before i commit.

What Heinzmann kit do you have Andy?

 

[aaannndddyyy]

He’s had his now for about 2 mounts he is disabled so doesn’t put much effort into peddling, range around 20 miles but his mtb is on the heavy side 22kg without the kit. I have used his bike and it is fast with good acceleration.
I have the 250 watt 36v 5amp NiCd kit bought from the classified to this forum for 150 pounds, around 15 miles per charge on a 4 year old 5amp battery Heinzmann do use the best Sanyo batteries available there’s a picture of my bike.
(Pedelec Forums - Electric Bike Forum > Pedelecs Forums > Electric Bicycles
Hill Climb Boost Battery for the your Torq)
I also fitted a powerbyke kit to the rear wheel for speed the hole thing weighed 38kgs not a problem for the Heinzmann kit easily able to pull the weight, I have posted a few times about this kit on the forum .

 

[coops]

Hi Ian,

Bear in mind when calculating battery requirements & range that your intended 'cruising' speed has a very large effect on energy consumption, aswell as motor efficiency: 20mph or just over requires around twice the total power of 15mph, and maybe more than twice if the motor is less efficient and with less/no pedalling contribution. You'd use around 400-500W at 20mph or so, in still air (no headwind...) for a reasonably efficient motor & upright bike, and higher energy use means more battery weight... by contrast at 15mph its quite possible to use 200W or less, even with only light pedalling.

Somewhere in between 15-20mph seems a fair compromise between speed, range & battery weight and hub motor bikes powered for those speeds give good hill climbing too if needed (if their peak power is sufficient), though hills can also reduce range drastically due to the power needed.

Hope thats useful .

Stuart.

 

[Ian_Fearn]

Thanks for the information but i'm SOOOOO confused by all this!!

I think a Brompton would suit me with either a Nano kit or Heinzmann but on the other hand my MTB would also suit me with the Heinz kit too.

At the other end of the scale people seem to be raving about the Ezee Torq which seems to give good range and excellent speed.

Would anybody like to comment which examples of the above would give the best combination of speed, quality and range?

When i see a Brompton Nano review its always compared with other folders rather than MTB style bikes. I'd prefer range and speed over the practicality of the Brompton if i had to choose but if i could get a folder with the same range and speed as the MTB then that'd be ideal.

That Ezee Torq looks really good VFM.

 

[coops]

Sorry Ian, I didn't mean to confuse - I was rather hoping to help clarify the range/speed issue you seemed to be asking about .

The range you get on an electric bike depends a lot on the speed you travel at:

On the Torq, for example, (my battery is a standard NiMH 36V 9ah & gives 324Wh total) I get 30 miles or so at 15mph, but only 15miles or so at 20mph,
with similar pedal input for both speeds. Thats mainly because the power required increases sharply with speed, due to wind resistance, rather than a peculiar characteristic of the Torq per se (although better motor efficiency will improve range for a given battery size), as far as I understand it.

Its quite possible to get ranges of nearer 40 or even 50 miles on a Torq (thanks to the other Ian for that!), or most ebikes for that matter, with more pedalling & less speed, and thats how the brompton nano does it, so there's no real clear cut answer - it depends how fast you want to go, and how hard you want to pedal, though pedal input makes much less difference at high 20mph+ speeds compared to 12-15mph say, because its a much smaller fraction of the total power required .

Does that help?

Stuart.

 

[Ian]

Ian, you made a comment earlier about being powered without assistance, the Torq, in common with many purpose built electric bikes will definitely not do this, when given help the Torq will go fast and far, but without pedalling it will, as they say "just hang on the wall". It is important to remember that these bikes are not motorcycles or mopeds and are intended to be pedalled, indeed to comply with the letter of the law they should be pedalled to make power assistance available, at present largely ignored but those days are numbered.

 

[Ian_Fearn]

Ahhhh, thanks! That makes a lot more sense now