Wisper Having a few practical issues with my new ebike - locking and quick release

[CCebiker]

Hello everyone, I've been a lurker while deciding on my first ebike. I ended up going with Wisper 806 due to having mobility issues, and the fact they could do the road legal full throttle.

The bike arrived on Friday and it's absolutely beautiful and was really nice when I took it out.

This is my first ever ebike. I took the insurance and recovery option from Wisper when I bought the bike. Upon reading the insurance terms (through the company "Sundays") they require the bike to be locked through the frame, all QR wheels and to an immovable object. The documentation appears to want the wheel attached to the frame AND an immovable object, not just the frame (if there's a separate lock from frame to object).



Because of the dimensions of the bike and the shape of the step through frame I can't manage this like in their photo, as a D lock won't go through the wheel, frame and a bike rack. A chain will, however I think if I lock the front with a chain, the handlebars could be removed, the chain lifted over, and then the qr wheel popped off leaving the bike free to take. The cables with d locks can't be used, as they aren't Gold rated, and Sundays say this in their terms.

I've come up with this solution for now.


Chain through back wheel and frame (next time I'd wrap it around again to remove the slack and keep it up off the ground) and the d lock through the front QR wheel but not to the immovable object.

I've tried to get clarification from Wisper and Sundays (via backpedal) on whether this will be acceptable for their insurance. I'm waiting on further replies. Wisper replied saying that you can get gold rated d locks with cables, which threw me cause I don't think there's any gold rated cables themselves. If anyone can find one please send me the link.

Does anyone have any idea how to most practically lock it up while meeting their terms? Especially for short trips into the local pharmacy etc. Carrying both these locks is a lot too, I can't fit them in my little pannier. I attached the d lock to the seat post but it gets in the way a lot and limits the step through ease. I'm in a very small city and I got this bike to use as transport, so I do plan on leaving it locked up. I just want to be sure I do it right so insurance would pay out if it's stolen.

Should I change out the QR for a solid axle? I'm not even sure how to do that but I could take it somewhere.

Honestly I'm kind of regretting getting Sunday's insurance after seeing the terms compared to some others. Sundays don't replace stolen parts, so I feel it should be up to me if I want to risk my front wheel with a cable, but I'm wary that if I don't secure the front QR wheel, and the entire bike gets stolen, then they might not pay out.

Sorry for the long post, I'm terrible and summarising things. I'm keen to use my bike for errands but anxious about doing things right. Any and all suggestions welcome. I'm hoping to find a practical solution and get Sundays to confirm in writing that my locking method is ok. If you're with a different, simpler insurance company please let me know, I'm still within the time frame to switch I think.

Thanks everyone!

 

[saneagle]

What they're saying is that if someone nicks a QR wheel, or your frame is not locked to something solid, they won't cover it. The back wheel is bolted, so can't easily be nicked. If you put your chain through the front wheel and frame and lock it to something solid, it would be OK and only one lock needed. If necessary put a loop of chain around the frame so that it can't be slipped over it anywhere. You only need multiple locks if your bike is left repeatedly for long periods of time. For shopping, dentist and things like that, one decent lock should be sufficient.

 

[guerney]

D lock won't go through the wheel, frame and a bike rack.

D locks are too small. I have failed to find any D lock large enough, gold rated or otherwise. The thin tubed bike rack depicted by Sundays is hilarious, I can't recall seeing many of those recently (apart from on train platforms).

My bike might be about the same size as yours?

https://www.cyclemotion.co.uk/worldwheels/heliosp8.htm

Whenever I go shopping at large supermarkets, I fold my Dahon 20" wheeler and take it in with me - security guards don't object, as long as the bike stays inside the trolley. Most customers don't mind me taking my bike into their premises. I'm assembling a cheap non-ebike I won't mind too much losing, for everywhere else.

Any and all suggestions welcome.

Daisy chain up to 6 gold rated D locks together, to go around any lamp post or bike rack of stupid thick width?

 

[CCebiker]

D locks are too small. I have failed to find any D lock large enough, gold rated or otherwise. The thin tubed bike rack depicted by Sundays is hilarious, I can't recall seeing any of those recently.

My bike might be about the same size as yours?

https://www.cyclemotion.co.uk/worldwheels/heliosp8.htm

Whenever I go shopping at large supermarkets, I fold my Dahon 20" wheeler and take it in with me - security guards don't object, as long as the bike stays inside the trolley. Most customers don't mind me taking my bike into their premises. I'm assembling a cheap non-ebike I won't mind too much losing, for everywhere else.




Daisy chain up to 6 gold rated D locks together, to go around any lamp post or bike rack of stupid thick width?

Haha ok I'm glad it's not just me who thought this diagram was impossible. Maybe on thin road bikes I guess.

 

[thelarkbox]

Oxford chains are "Sold Secure 104:2020 Bicycle - Gold" if thats relevant? i use one fwiw..

 

[guerney]

Oxford chains are "Sold Secure 104:2020 Bicycle - Gold" if thats relevant? i use one fwiw..

Are they easy to cut or break? Seems many motorbikes get stolen these days - someone I know gave up motorcycles because his kept getting stolen, despite using three chains. That and being run off the road. For me heavy locks are no problem, but I wonder what these three versions weigh? The first two are listed as 2.54 kg, 3.27 kg, but the 2m version is lighter than both at "1.1 kg".

(these are listed as sold secure silver)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Oxford-Products-OF159-Heavy-Chain/dp/B001IGWYDQ?th=1

Does the sold secure gold version weigh 5.07 kg?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Oxford-Chain-Motorcycle-Secure-Security/dp/B097NFRMJW/

 

[AndyBike]

What do they say about using a security QR front skewer ?. The type that needs a special allen key to operate it(dont lose the allen key ffs)

I use an abus bordo granit lock, along with a kryptonite cable to feed through the wheels if i go to town. 99% of the places I lock it you just need a main lock, and only use the cable if im in the city center, but even then its not for that long.

If youre intending to leave it for extended periods, look to remove the front wheel and lock that to the frame using something like the lock in Guerney post above. Heavy yes, but better than losing the bike.

NOTE- No bike lock is secure enough to withstand a cordless angle grinder(ok there are some but theyre too small to lock the wheel through ,are really really heavy and cost £250)
So follow some golden rules about where you intend to lock it, ie in plain sight and not down some shaded back alley or god forbid overnight.

Thew lock I use -(you can get cheaper in some places)

Abus Bordo Granit XPlus 6500 11cm | Bike Security | Tiso UK

Shop the Kid's Cannondale Trail 24 at tiso.com. Finance available. Spread the cost with Klarna.

www.tiso.com

Kryptonite bike cable (About 15 quid)

KryptoFlex 410 Double Loop Cable

The KryptoFlex 410 Double Loop Cable is a great accessory item when combined with another Kryptonite lock.

www.kryptonitelock.com

Also look at an alarm lock as a possibility. Most thieves are chancers looking for a quick snip and ride off and want to do so fast as poss without drawing attention to themselves
The other type are using a cordless angle grinder so dont care, but for the 99% of the time an alarm type lock is going to scare away the chancers.

Pardon our interruption...

 

[thelarkbox]

5kg sounds about right @guerney , hefty is the word i would use..

 

[CCebiker]

Thanks for the replies. The chains are gold rated, that's fine as I have one, but the cables that come with a gold rated D lock are not. I personally would be ok using a cable for my front QR in my local area, for shorter stops and acknowledging the risk of having the wheel stolen. But if that's not acceptable for my insurance then I'd essentially be risking not being paid out for the whole bike if it got stolen.

I think it's kind of ridiculous that they require it since they aren't covering any stolen parts. To me it just seems like a way to make it less practical and more likely that a customer will invalidate the insurance. I don't see how securing a qr front wheel does anything to prevent theft of the whole bike, which is all their insurance covers. Immobilising any wheel to prevent a quick getaway, I suppose so, but they say only QR wheels need to be secured.

If my front wheel wasn't QR then I would use the gold chain for the back and the cable that came with the d lock through my front wheel and seat. That would be a bit lighter weight and practical to carry around.

Is anyone with Laka? What are their locking requirements like? I'm thinking of switching while I still can. For some other reasons too (see the Wisper security package thread).

 

[CCebiker]

What they're saying is that if someone nicks a QR wheel, or your frame is not locked to something solid, they won't cover it.

Thanks for the suggestion to loop it again around the frame, I don't know how I didn't think of that haha.

As for the QR issue, I just find it odd that they require it to be locked with a SS GOLD lock (extension cables excluded) even though their insurance does not cover stolen parts, only the theft of the whole bike, or damage to the bike incurred by attempted theft of the whole bike. If they aren't covering my QR wheel then surely it's up to me how much I risk that wheel as I'll be the one replacing it myself?

I plan on doing everything reasonable to prevent theft, but in the event of theft I don't want to be refused a payout because I didn't fully meet the requirements.

 

[CCebiker]

I use an abus bordo granit lock, along with a kryptonite cable to feed through the wheels if i go to town. 99% of the places I lock it you just need a main lock, and only use the cable if im in the city center, but even then its not for that long.



Kryptonite bike cable (About 15 quid)

KryptoFlex 410 Double Loop Cable

The KryptoFlex 410 Double Loop Cable is a great accessory item when combined with another Kryptonite lock.

www.kryptonitelock.com

I agree regarding only needing to lock it all up with a cable too if I'm in the city centre or leaving it a little while like at the hairdresser's (not in city centre), however if, god forbid, my bike is stolen, I fear that by not having the front wheel secured with a gold lock, I'd invalidate the insurance payout for the theft of the whole bike.

I actually have the type of cable you linked to and would prefer to use that for my QR and seat with the heavy chain through the rear triangle, but Sundays don't allow it to be used as it is not gold rated, even if sold with a gold rated D lock.

I've always thought it was more secure to lock through the back wheel and over the rear triangle of the frame than on only the front wheel and frame, but maybe using the chain on the front wheel and frame would be the simpler way to meet the requirements. It just doesn't seem as safe to me though.

I've just found Lakas terms and they just want one sold secure gold lock to the bike frame, and will cover theft, vandalism, malicious damage, theft of bike parts, loss of the bike during an accident and theft while riding the bike for approximately £240 a year, with new for old replacement.

So I think I might just cancel Sundays and save myself the hassle of trying to meet their requirements for less coverage. One SS gold chain (which weighs 3kg by the way) around the frame and back wheel with an extra cable for the seat and QR when I deem it necessary. Or take my front wheel off and secure it with the back with the chain for longer trips in the city centre. No need to carry the additional d-lock anymore.

I'll keep the tracking & recovery service from backpedal since I already paid to fit the tracker but given that the app keeps crashing, I'm not entirely sure it's going to work in an emergency (hopefully I never find out).

 

[lenny]

 

[CCebiker]

Yes, this is what I have but a different brand. My issue was more about meeting the insurer's requirements for paying out for the theft of the full bike. Which I think are strange terms for cover that doesn't replace stolen parts.

Burg-Wachter Wachter 1.5M Sold... https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B09MMD87JY?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

My current chain lock as seen through the back wheel and frame.

 

[CCebiker]

Thank you for the information Lenny, however I'm not sure what you're trying to tell me. I have two Sold Secure Gold locks already, one d lock and one chain. I'm glad that they are both as secure as they are, but if someone appears with an angle grinder, I'd like to know my insurance cover isn't going to be invalid because I was unable to lock my bike exactly as described in their policy documentation.

 

[lenny]

Thew lock I use -(you can get cheaper in some places)

Abus Bordo Granit XPlus 6500 11cm | Bike Security | Tiso UK

Shop the Kid's Cannondale Trail 24 at tiso.com. Finance available. Spread the cost with Klarna.

www.tiso.com

Kryptonite bike cable (About 15 quid)

 

[CCebiker]

Just in case anyone else is considering Sundays insurance, I saw that I'm not the only one who has thought that the requirements were unreasonably strict. I didn't even get into the requirements for your own storage at home or in the car, which have also been a cause of stress to me. This post goes into some more detail (the guy says he's with Laka but later realises he's with Sundays, not laka)

Insurance requirement difficult to meet

Hi I don't think that I can meet the security requirement of bike insurance. I have just taken out insurance for my new ebike. The bike cost just over £6,000 and the insurance just under £300. Firstly, I am very lucky to be able to spend such a lot of money on one bike (I have recently retired)...

road.cc

 

[guerney]

5kg sounds about right @guerney , hefty is the word i would use..

Thanks, a bloody thick heavy chain like that seems a sensible solution, that one looks difficult and time consuming to cut or grind through... thing is, people don't appear to challenge thieves using grinders in broad daylight in public places to steal bikes, alarms are commonplace and also ignored. If my bike shouted "FIRE! FIRE! AAARRGGGHH!", this would be noticed more than an alarm - I've seen research concluding people react to "FIRE!" and ignore "HELP!"

I'll see how much I hate using an inexpensive manual/non-e-bike for short journeys, and should that prove unviable despite it's "Ultra range" gears, I'll shift the "1800LM" headlight from this Minoura bar on the Helios:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B003AI3WX6/

...onto the handlebar area presently occupied by my DPC-18 display and external button cluster, plonk the Minoura next to it, and chuck the display and buttons onto that... thus making the display easily removable when leaving the Helios locked up. The Minoura with display can be easily unclipped and unplugged, shoved into a bag along with the seatpost, all unclippable lights, GuerneySiderating Illumimaker™², GoPro camera, helmet and ebike battery - all that stuff will require careful lugging around in a large bag, and I'd rather not. It's all such a pfaff.

I should go with my original idea of dragging around a sufficiently large safe on a folding bike trailer with my folding bike, then folding my bike and trailer into the safe and chaining that to something.

 

[AndyBike]

Theres always option B. Or should that be S.

 

[Az.]

I would change insurer if I were you.

They clearly want you to remove front wheel each time you lock your bike.

 

[CCebiker]

I changed to Laka this morning and already feel so much less stressed about losing and using my bike.