Have I missed anything?

Myself and hubby are looking for a Dutch style step through and a straight handlebar crossbar respectively.

We live at the bottom of a 3 mile hill in Lancashire which has 1in 8 or 12% steep bits in new money.

Use will be leisure only. I have a very dodgy chronic back and hubby is 63 years old with similar problems.

I have done a lot of reading up, using this forum in particular ( for which, thanks).

Our 'must haves' are mid crank drive motor and the frame styles already mentioned. Cost of 1k or less. A throttle. 26" wheels as neither of us are big.

Our desireables are for me, battery pack over back wheel in a rack and for hubby, battery on the frame. 15ah battery if possible.

In fact the two bikes that we want are a Woosh Santana CD and a Woosh Sport CD or a Kudos Eiger. The problem is that we are a 500 mile round trip away from Woosh and we don't want to buy blind. We want to buy before 1st January to comply with the new throttle legislation - I do voluntary work as part of the Judiciary and can't mess with the law!

Are there any other bikes that I have missed, and that we can look at nearer home?

Any other ideas?

The Ezee Sprint can do 12% hills.

 

from Cyclezee in Milton Keynes.

 

http://www.cyclezee.com/ezee-sprint-primo.html

 

http://www.cyclezee.com/uploads/2/8/6/0/2860781/1427196898.jpg

Thanks Trex. I have missed that one. Not keen on the battery behind the frame and the specs are nothing like the Santana (gears, battery size), but at least they are within reach!

Trouble is we keep coming back to the Woosh bikes because they seem such good value for money.

I'd do some research on the gear-change issues of the Woosh CD bikes first, at least then you'll be prepared.

I'd do some research on the gear-change issues of the Woosh CD bikes first, at least then you'll be prepared.

Can you enlighten me with some basic idea of the issues you are referring to please?

Can you enlighten me with some basic idea of the issues you are referring to please?

 

They don't change gear very well uphill under load, it's difficult to cut the motor power and execute a smooth gear-change.

 

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/woosh-santana-cd-gearchange-quality.18101/

Actually as long as you think ahead a little bit it really isn’t a problem. Just change down in good time on hills and let the motor stop, or stop it by just touching a brake lever to activate the cut out before changing gear. It becomes second nature very quickly.

 

The motor load added to your leg power means that the mech has to work extra hard to lift the chain for downshifts under power with a crank drive unless you ease the load on the chain. Not really a problem with torque sensor bikes but it can be with speed sensor ones like most of the Woosh range.

They don't change gear very well uphill under load, it's difficult to cut the motor power and execute a smooth gear-change.

 

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/woosh-santana-cd-gearchange-quality.18101/

That's an interesting thread. With my 3 mile hill I imagine I'd stick it in 1st gear straight away and just throttle up so if I'm reading it right, the gear problem may not be an issue. I do appreciate that it's something to take on board but my major concern at the end of the day is that to get into desireable cycling countryside I have to somehow get up that hill and I can't imagine a bike without CD doing that. Am I being too simplistic?

yes, you can have powerful hub drives like the Ezee I mentioned earlier that take you easily up steep hills without having to think about changing gears.

The Woosh equivalent of the Ezee is the Woosh Big Bear LS.

 

http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?bigbear-ls

yes, you can have powerful hub drives like the Ezee I mentioned earlier that take you easily up steep hills without having to think about changing gears.

The Woosh equivalent of the Ezee is the Woosh Big Bear LS.

 

http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?bigbear-ls

So what makes the Ezee and the Big Bear different to other hub ebikes? How can I know from the specs which bikes will get us up the hills without my input? Again I'm thinking about how we can get to try out bikes within a reasonable distance of Lancashire.

I tested the Kalhoff on hills and the traffic made it a real problem starting on a 10% incline. A throttle was essential. My personal suspicion is that ebikes are going to cause excessive wear on the derailleur especially the chain after two years or less. Before that less than optimum performance. No problems on the test run except the bike was back heavy and not very good to handle at low speeds, with motor up hills or pedalling or freewheeling in towns. Test rides are essential. PS: I've seen throttle only propel ebikes faster than walking speed. One conventional (too quick to catch the make) and the Go-Cycle (cost prohibited). I can't see a bike I like. Is front suspension a great advantage? I've got it on my pedal bike and that is a good runner (best I've ever had). Spare bike not so good and that has suspension as well. Roads and paths are very bumpy locally. Very to the point of being a health hazard.

So what makes the Ezee and the Big Bear different to other hub ebikes? How can I know from the specs which bikes will get us up the hills without my input? Again I'm thinking about how we can get to try out bikes within a reasonable distance of Lancashire.

 

The size of the geared hub motors. The Ezee motor on the Ezee Sprint and the BPM motor on the Big Bear LS are about 50% bigger, heavier and more powerful than the average geared hub motors.

Trust me on this, these bikes climb almost any hill in the UK.

The size of the geared hub motors. The Ezee motor on the Ezee Sprint and the BPM motor on the Big Bear LS are about 50% bigger, heavier and more powerful than the average geared hub motors.

Trust me on this, these bikes climb almost any hill in the UK.

Don't worry, I DO believe you, it's just how to look at the market and how to know that one bike will climb my hill but another won't! TBH we've been pushed into a position where it is urgent to get a bike due to the legislation because one fact I do know is that I need a throttle so getting a bike after the New Year becomes a no-no. This has suddenly become a bit of a 'mare' due to Woosh closing the Cambridge outlet at an unfortunate time for us. I think that we would almost certainly buy the Sport CD And the Santana from them before Christmas had we got chance to test ride them.

I wouldn't worry much about the throttle situation. You may have to put up with no throttle for a couple of months until the manufacturers get their bikes legally type approved.

I wouldn't worry much about the throttle situation. You may have to put up with no throttle for a couple of months until the manufacturers get their bikes legally type approved.

I hope so. I think that whether the cycling community like it or not, many people are like us - too old and knackered to ride bikes with any real pleasure, except with the aid of a throttle yet at the same time too stubborn to lie down and accept it! We have thought about just ignoring the law and using a throttle anyway but as I have said, I work within the Judiciary and can't chance it, and there would be significant trouble if we ran into a pedestrian under those circumstances.

one fact I do know is that I need a throttle so getting a bike after the New Year becomes a no-no.

 

I was convinced I would need a throttle too, different health related issues to you. When I started riding I realised I could manage just fine without. Just something to think about, it may of course turn out that you do need the throttle, but you may be pleasantly surprised.

I was convinced I would need a throttle too, different health related issues to you. When I started riding I realised I could manage just fine without. Just something to think about, it may of course turn out that you do need the throttle, but you may be pleasantly surprised.

I'm sure that I am capable of peddling uphill to an extent but my back will complain awfully afterwards. Even if I walk up a hill I suffer later.

I'm sure that I am capable of peddling uphill to an extent but my back will complain awfully afterwards. Even if I walk up a hill I suffer later.

 

You have to realise that with a speed sensor bike you will not be pedalling very hard. You just have to turn over the cranks to get full power. The Big Bear and Ezee mentioned above are much more powerful than small hub motors and will do almost all the work while you just pedal without effort. In fact pedalling is good for the back and it’s leaning forward which can cause problems with a bad back. So an upright bike with high bars will let you sit up with a straight back.

 

I would say the two mentioned would be better for you than a CD bike. Even a speed sensor one. While a torque sensor CD takes some effort to ride uphill, which is the main part of its charm for those who want exercise.

You have to realise that with a speed sensor bike you will not be pedalling very hard. You just have to turn over the cranks to get full power. The Big Bear and Ezee mentioned above are much more powerful than small hub motors and will do almost all the work while you just pedal without effort. In fact pedalling is good for the back and it’s leaning forward which can cause problems with a bad back. So an upright bike with high bars will let you sit up with a straight back.

 

I would say the two mentioned would be better for you than a CD bike. Even a speed sensor one. While a torque sensor CD takes some effort to ride uphill, which is the main part of its charm for those who want exercise.

 

That is really interesting advice thanks. I was aware that I needed the dutch style to enable me to sit comfortably.

Is it just the Big Bear and the Ezee Sprint that have the extra power within our price range or do I have more choice than that? What should I be looking for in the advertised specs of such a bike? What about the Batribike Diamond Pro for example?

 

http://www.batribike.com/electric-bikes/diamond/diamond-pro

the Diamond Pro has the smaller 8-Fun motor and smaller capacity battery compared to the Big Bear LS. Other than that, it's a good bike.

It looks like a standard Dutch style motor which are not very powerful. The battery is not very big either and won’t get all that far in the real world using high power. The two mentioned above have the most powerful hub motors and will get you up almost any hill. If you search for reviews there are plenty here for the BB and many here have the Ezee too.

 

Crossed with the above.

The size of the geared hub motors. The Ezee motor on the Ezee Sprint and the BPM motor on the Big Bear LS are about 50% bigger, heavier and more powerful than the average geared hub motors.

Trust me on this, these bikes climb almost any hill in the UK.

 

Coupled together with a nice 20amp controller to make use of that power.

the Diamond Pro has the smaller 8-Fun motor and smaller capacity battery compared to the Big Bear LS. Other than that, it's a good bike.

So smaller motor means less grunt up the hills i'm guessing, and therefore not as suitable?

So smaller motor means less grunt up the hills i'm guessing, and therefore not as suitable?

 

Sorry - I hadn't read the other replies before asking that!

Lancslass.

Unfortunately I think you may be asking for too many 'must haves' and really are going to compromise on some features.

No legal crank drive or hub drive pedelec will go up a 12% hill without some rider input,you will need minimum 500 watt to achieve that, and you realise that is illegal as a bicycle.

The best legal hillclimbers are the BPM hub motored bikes such as the Woosh Big Bear,the Kudos Tornado,Sonata,Arriba and Rapide,the Oxygen bikes and KTM Panasonic hub bikes. I am told that the latest Kalkhoff crank drives are good up hills.

Throttles.....some of the Kudos bikes have take-off throttles ,working up to 4 mph,full speed throttles (up to 15 mph) will be illegal on bikes bought after 1 January 2016,unless type approved but as yet I cannot see how these e-bikes can be type approved. But do not be under the impression that with a legal e-bike you can twist and go up hills,without rider input,that is just not possible.

The Kudos Eiger is crank drive with a TCM motor,the motor is built at Tianjin university,I named it TCM whilst waiting for the ash cloud to go and sitting in Shanghai airport,this motor is not as powerful as the BPM hub,others use the same motor.

You started your post wanting Dutch style bikes but these tend to use the old SWX motor,Holland is flat so hill climbing is not a priority,these motors are not that powerful.

Hydraulic brakes require less effort to retard downhill.

OK,you need to look for 26" wheeled bikes,I assume step through,with a throttle,BPM motored,hydraulic brakes,probably a 46cm seat post....my Kudos Sonata would do most of your needs,but it has only a set off throttle,but you will still need some rider power input up steep hills....maybe others can recommend alternatives.

KudosDave