Have I got too many spacers in?

[Michael Love]

So, I didn't fix my old motor after all, still sounded like all 3 phases firing at same time so loud groan from motor.
I got my pswpower kit tho and fitted it, but have I got too many spacers in at the cassette side cos I can feel a clicking feeling except when at smallest gear.
And if I remove a spacer, do you think there will be enough play in the disc brake to come out even farther on that side of the bike.
I remember the wheel was never central between the bars anyway.
My old wheel was a 6 speed freewheel. The new wheel is an 8 speed cassette, so maybe I have to change the front sprocket spacing too.l, but still allow for a Pas sensor.
Also looks like I have to buy a new deruielluer thingy cos the 6speed one doesn't span all 8 gears, and is going to hit the 34T gear if it did go that far in anyway.

 

[Nealh]

You will need 8 speed shifter to use all the gears the derailleur may be all right, if not use a £3 or £4 road link (SJS Cycles) to extend the capacity range of the derailleur and adjust or use a longer B screw. In lowest gear (#1) the derailleur top jockey wheel should be very close to the #1 gear/sprocket
You only need enough clearance (one washer space) so that the chain does not foul the inside of the frame /drop out, then you can play with spacing to allow the brake calliper to centralise.
Once you get the spacing/set up right the wheel will need dishing in situ to get it central, this easy to do with a good spoke key (Spokey ) are good.
To dish a wheel undo the spokes (one turn) on the side that has the smaller space/gap to the frame stay ( in this case probably LHS), then tighten the spokes on the other side (RHS) all one turn. Check the wheel spacing and if not central repeat again to move the wheel over, sometime one turn may be to much so try half turn or quarter turn.

You have to be patient and tinker/fettle things around a bit to get every thing right, so if it doesn't look right have another go.

 

[vfr400]

The motor is already off-set because of the length of the cassette spline, so you shouldn't fit any spacers on that side. As above, you want top gear as close as you can get it to the frame without the chain touching the frame.

 

[Andy-Mat]

So, I didn't fix my old motor after all, still sounded like all 3 phases firing at same time so loud groan from motor.
I got my pswpower kit tho and fitted it, but have I got too many spacers in at the cassette side cos I can feel a clicking feeling except when at smallest gear.
And if I remove a spacer, do you think there will be enough play in the disc brake to come out even farther on that side of the bike.
I remember the wheel was never central between the bars anyway.
My old wheel was a 6 speed freewheel. The new wheel is an 8 speed cassette, so maybe I have to change the front sprocket spacing too.l, but still allow for a Pas sensor.
Also looks like I have to buy a new deruielluer thingy cos the 6speed one doesn't span all 8 gears, and is going to hit the 34T gear if it did go that far in anyway.

May I say that you have written one of the best "descriptions" of a problem, that I have ever read on Pedelec.
That can only help you in the long run!
If only others here seeking help might learn from you!
It appears that you have replaced the problem motor already, is that true? If yes, then you don't need me!
regards and I hope that you get the "Derailleur" problems sorted soon.
Andy (watching and learning!)

 

[Michael Love]

Sorry to trouble you again.
The derailleur is a Shimano, I bought an SRAM 8 speed sprocket set.
The current derailleur seems to have a screw round the back of to position the complete derailleur, but I don't think the top sprocket of it will ever clear the bottom of the 34T sprocket.
If the current derailleur gas a screw at the back to position the complete thing, surely the extender can rotate counterclockwise because it does not have a screw to keep it in the one place when screwed in where the derailleur would normally go - Never mind, I see the lip on the back of the extender.
Could someone please recommend a cheap 8 speed derailleur and shifter
I would rather not add more pieces to this if possible as it is difficult enough.
Thank you yet again.

 

[Nealh]

None will come cheap unless you find an old 8 sp mtb you can rob both off, sometimes your local council tip will have scrap bikes set a side. You could look there and offer a £10 or so for a crappy bike.

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[Michael Love]

Hmmm, I have bought an extender, I'll give that a go before paying out more money.
Thank you as always for your replies.

 

[Michael Love]

Can anyone please post a picture showing the chain at the largest rear sprocket down the length of the chain to the to of the sprocket at the crank, and the same from the bottom of the derailleur to the bottom of the crank sprocket?
I'd like to see what it looks like.
Thank you.

 

[Nealh]

10 spd set up using original 34t capable derailleur, I added a road link and a 40t 10spd cassette. Front CR is 48t/34t double.
Current rear tyre isn't TL capable so caffelatex leaches through tyre wall every 10 weeks or so, waiting for nice weather so I can fit new TL ready tyre outside.
Leccy kit is Revos friction drive and about 25miles range with 208wh battery.

Chain on 40t.


Chain on 11t.

 

[Michael Love]

Hi,
Thank you for posting that.
What I am really looking for is pics showing down the length of the chain. I want to see the angle of the chain coming off the crank sprocket. I would like to know what a typical chain looks like coming off the crank.
I was also just thinking, maybe when I remove the spacers, the chain will go to the largest rear sprocket which it doesn't at the minute, even with the screw all the way to push the derailleur in.
Thanks again.

 

[Andy-Mat]

Hi,
Thank you for posting that.
What I am really looking for is pics showing down the length of the chain. I want to see the angle of the chain coming off the crank sprocket. I would like to know what a typical chain looks like coming off the crank.
I was also just thinking, maybe when I remove the spacers, the chain will go to the largest rear sprocket which it doesn't at the minute, even with the screw all the way to push the derailleur in.
Thanks again.

Your exact problems I probably cannot help with, but I took a quick look on YouTube, and there are many videos for gear adjustment, this is just one of many:-

What I have done in the past, is to put the chain on the middle gear on the cassette, and either of the crank gears, or the middle one if you have three.
Then by loosening the rear axle slightly, and tapping it forwards or backwards lightlywith a rubber mallet, I try to get the chain looking good and straight and the tyre in the middle of the frame....as the last bike I did it on had V-brakes. It will probably be easier with a disk brake, but I have not needed to adjust that on my current bike....
It may not be a correct method, but it helped at the time, and stopped the chain coming off.
regards
Andy

 

[Nealh]

The biggest issue you have Michael is that with a new 8 spd cassette you will not be able to use them all unless you swap out the 6 spd shifter to a 8 spd one and even then your derailleur (with a road link) might not be able to cope with 8spd.
What is the current derailleur model you are using ?

 

[Michael Love]

Is it possible to dish a wheel by as much as 10mm.

 

[Nealh]

10mm is a lot unless you use different length spokes on both sides.
3 ,4 or 5mm is ok if you have too.
From your pic the rhs still has too much spacing between cassette and d/o.
Get the washer spacing better to reduce any dishing required

 

[vfr400]

Can you ask the question in a different way? I'm not too sure what problem you're trying to solve.

 

[vfr400]

10mm is a lot unless you use different length spokes on both sides.
3 ,4 or 5mm is ok.
From your pic the rhs still has too much spacing between cassette and d/o.

I don't think that's a problem. His wheel looks to be central and he has a significant off-set in his frame. Without the spacers, he'd need to undish his wheel, which is what I'd do, but it's a lot of work for not much gain.

 

[Nealh]

Pics can be deceiving I reckon a 1 or 2mm move to the rhs is needed so a little less on the washers or the minutest of dishing, I would opt for spacing.
No substitute for having a bike in front of you.

 

[vfr400]

Pics can be deceiving I reckon a 1 or 2mm move to the rhs is needed so a little less on the washers or the minutest of dishing, I would opt for spacing.
No substitute for having a bike in front of you.

The camera is in line with the left centre tread line, because it's straight when tested with a straight edge. The straight edge continues to just left of the hole where his motor wire comes through, which is where it would be if the tyre were central.

There's still a question of whether his derailleur can reach all the way to bottom gear with those spaces there. He'll have to test it. Also, there might be chainline issues. I've got a feeling some undishing might be necessary. That'll be a first!

 

[vfr400]

Another thing. I had to fit a plain washer on the brake side axle on just about every motor I fitted to bring the disc in line with the centre of the caliper. I can see in the photo that your caliper is right to one side, which will probably cause the brake to bind and give poor braking.

 

[wheeliepete]

I could be wrong, I often am, but it looks to me like the frame is the problem, the dropouts are too wide and are being pulled together, not spread. I wonder if his original motor was one of those older, wider Bafangs as fitted to Wispers and Freegos. The OP did say his old motor had a 6 speed freewheel and it looks like the battery fits behind the seat post. It would explain all the spacers needed on the drive side. How wide are the dropouts with the wheel removed?