Hauling heavy loads in steep hills.

[D8ve]

@Danidl : Torque isn't that relevant here, "if I was king" I'd say a 250w motor running on 36V must have a 7.5A fuse.
If you are hellbound on limiting it for how much power they actually produce rather than what they consume then do so, they manage to do so for both mopeds and cars don't they?
In this case the motor can produce 3kW in real life, but because the company who makes them markets them as "250W" its street legal. just seems silly to have any restrictions at all if you can get around them by just straight up lying...

But this tread has gone horribly off topic now....

Nail head hit. If the manufacturer says 250 watts but it's 750 then you are ok.
If you buy a 500 watt and relabel it, you are committing fraud and driving an un licensed,taxed or insured motor vehicle. In an accident you would be liable for all the costs and any damages on top of any criminal offences.

 

[Danidl]

@Danidl : Torque isn't that relevant here, "if I was king" I'd say a 250w motor running on 36V must have a 7.5A fuse.
If you are hellbound on limiting it for how much power they actually produce rather than what they consume then do so, they manage to do so for both mopeds and cars don't they?
In this case the motor can produce 3kW in real life, but because the company who makes them markets them as "250W" its street legal. just seems silly to have any restrictions at all if you can get around them by just straight up lying...

But this tread has gone horribly off topic now....

Mechanical power watts =2 pi torque x revs per second of course torque is relevent . It is the mechanical power which brings the bike up. The hill.

Electric power consumed watts current x voltage
Efficiency = mechanical power / electric power.

When you purchase bike from a recognised manufacturer it will have CE marking, designation codes etc and the manufacturer has taken responsibility for type approval etc. You are off the hook.
If you manufacture the bike yourself, even from kit parts you are assuming this responsibility.
As Dave has said if you use parts and deliberately falsified information you are guilty of fraudulent activity and potentially open to legal action.

 

[Danidl]

Mechanical power watts =2 pi torque x revs per second of course torque is relevent . It is the mechanical power which brings the bike up. The hill.

Electric power consumed watts current x voltage
Efficiency = mechanical power / electric power.

When you purchase bike from a recognised manufacturer it will have CE marking, designation codes etc and the manufacturer has taken responsibility for type approval etc. You are off the hook.
If you manufacture the bike yourself, even from kit parts you are assuming this responsibility.
As Dave has said if you use parts and deliberately falsified information you are guilty of fraudulent activity and potentially open to legal action.

The reason why putting a 7.5amp fuse in would not be a necessary is that if the motor was operating at 50% efficiency you would only be getting 125w of output mechanical power, andll you are entitled to the full 250w . At very low revs the mechanicalpower falls to zero, so you are entitled to have massive currents.

 

[soundwave]

sclass bike motors are rated at 350w from bosch but they are the same thing inside.

its why all bosch motors can put out 700w

 

[Renax]

I'm just arguing that the rules are stupid, I know very well that I'm a criminal, none of my cars are strictly legal either.

you are committing fraud and driving an un licensed,taxed or insured motor vehicle. In an accident you would be liable for all the costs and any damages on top of any criminal offences.

Well I'f this is true in England I'm thankful I don't live there. over here the person who caused the accident is liable anyhow..

 

[1boris]

I'm just arguing that the rules are stupid, I know very well that I'm a criminal, none of my cars are strictly legal either.


Well I'f this is true in England I'm thankful I don't live there. over here the person who caused the accident is liable anyhow..

So you are saying that here in Norway you can drive an ilegal vehicle and thats ok if you are not the one that caused the accident.Thats just a plain lie.

 

[soundwave]

there is not 1 kit on ebay that is uk road legal regardless of the motor wattage.

why?

because on near all of them you are able to remove the 15mph via the lcd screen or on the controller.

you cant do this on bosch bikes as the system is locked down and only a dongle will remove the speed limit.

both are classed as a off road switch and illegal under uk law.

so if the police want to enforce the law as is most would have there bikes taken away at first sight.

but it dont happen as the police are not interested in enforcing it and to date there has not been 1 test case nor has any member had a bike taken from them.

 

[Renax]

So you are saying that here in Norway you can drive an ilegal vehicle and thats ok if you are not the one that caused the accident.Thats just a plain lie.

Well, I have had a head on crash at 70km/h with my old VW bus, I did not have insurance at the time of the accident.
I got full coverage for my wrecked bus from the opposing drivers insurance company, only reaction to me not having insurance was that the police took the license plates from my then wrecked car on site. If the accident was my fault I would have to pay for the repairs of his car, that would be bad. But how much damage can a bike really do?

Ofc, I will be fined for driving a unregistered vehicle if the police finds out, that fine i know from experience is 4000NOK, and a chance I'm willing to take because I am as you all now know a hardened criminal

 

[soundwave]

 

[D8ve]

Well, I have had a head on crash at 70km/h with my old VW bus, I did not have insurance at the time of the accident.
I got full coverage for my wrecked bus from the opposing drivers insurance company, only reaction to me not having insurance was that the police took the license plates from my then wrecked car on site. If the accident was my fault I would have to pay for the repairs of his car, that would be bad. But how much damage can a bike really do?

Ofc, I will be fined for driving a unregistered vehicle if the police finds out, that fine i know from experience is 4000NOK, and a chance I'm willing to take because I am as you all now know a hardened criminal

I had an accident on my legal bike.
The car drivers friend tested the bike brakes while I was incapacitated,
The driver was subsequently prosecutied for there driving. My bill for expenses is about £13,000 so far. And with broken arm and subsequent arthritis I have had to change the type of bike I ride.
So easily I could have lost the money, my job as prosecution would have got me sacked. And any extra grief the police wished to apply to me.
You on the other hand drive without insurance had you injured someone else with your car could you have compensated them for a life changing injury.
You're self declaring as a sociopath. What respect do you expect?

 

[Renax]

With or without insurance you can't really compensate someone enough for a life changing injury or death? NO. but with insurance you don't have to be economically in debt, thats the only "insurance" you get.
I did not know at the time that my insurance was expired, and I hadn't been driving if I did.

I'm sorry you had a accident, I hope you will be ok. your accident doesn't mean I'm a sociopath, unless you'll call anyone riding a bike without reflective stickers on the pedals a sociopath for breaking the law...

 

[1boris]

Well, I have had a head on crash at 70km/h with my old VW bus, I did not have insurance at the time of the accident.
I got full coverage for my wrecked bus from the opposing drivers insurance company, only reaction to me not having insurance was that the police took the license plates from my then wrecked car on site. If the accident was my fault I would have to pay for the repairs of his car, that would be bad. But how much damage can a bike really do?

Ofc, I will be fined for driving a unregistered vehicle if the police finds out, that fine i know from experience is 4000NOK, and a chance I'm willing to take because I am as you all now know a hardened criminal

With or without insurance you can't really compensate someone enough for a life changing injury or death? NO. but with insurance you don't have to be economically in debt, thats the only "insurance" you get.
I did not know at the time that my insurance was expired, and I hadn't been driving if I did.

I'm sorry you had a accident, I hope you will be ok. your accident doesn't mean I'm a sociopath, unless you'll call anyone riding a bike without reflective stickers on the pedals a sociopath for breaking the law...

The car is insured (basic) as long as the licence plates are on.even if you havent paid.Thats why you didnt get any problems.Your car was legal

 

[Renax]

The car is insured (basic) as long as the licence plates are on.even if you havent paid.Thats why you didnt get any problems.Your car was legal

Thats just not true at all. If you don't have insurance you're not insured. You can't just remove your insurance with the plates on your car, but if you don't pay your bills you're not insured anymore and then you are on your own. the authorities will then take your plates the first chance they get, as they did with my wrecked bus.

 

[1boris]

Thats just not true at all. If you don't have insurance you're not insured. You can't just remove your insurance with the plates on your car, but if you don't pay your bills you're not insured anymore and then you are on your own. the authorities will then take your plates the first chance they get, as they did with my wrecked bus.

Yes ,you cant remove your insurence with plates on the car.Thats not possible.
The insurance company want allow it,before the autohorities has taken the plates or you send them in yourself.The basic insurance,that doesent cover your car,but the other ones car/property and person injuries stays on until the authorities have had a chance to take your plates .Even if you stopped paying.

 

[Renax]

https://kundeservice.codanforsikring.no/blir-forsikringen-avsluttet-hvis-jeg-ikke-betaler/4630

Norwegian link, don't bother clicking if you don't know norwegian..

I know very well what happens if you don't pay your insurance, you clearly don't. If you don't belive me or the above link call your insurance company tomorrow, and ask them. why would they keep insuring a car if they don't get paid?

 

[anotherkiwi]

my bike goes 30mph

Mine thrown out of an airplane at 2000 metres goes much faster than that!

 

[anotherkiwi]

I'm just arguing that the rules are stupid, I know very well that I'm a criminal, none of my cars are strictly legal either.

In fact the EU agrees with you and are working on a new class of pedelec for solving just this problem which also affects delivery bicycles/tricycles. I read that on bike europe last year but can't find the reference maybe @flecc remembers? From memory: pedelec limited to 25 km/h but motor up to 1000 W continuous rated power.

 

[D8ve]

I'm sorry you had a accident, I hope you will be ok. your accident doesn't mean I'm a sociopath, unless you'll call anyone riding a bike without reflective stickers on the pedals a sociopath for breaking the law...

Your cars aren't legal, or insured. You blatantly risk other people's health, what else do you do. That's not accepting social responsibility.
You said how much damage could a bike cause?
Well saying death might be considered dramatic. But head injuries can happen to pedestrians.
My accident demos that a bike can easily get a high level of injury and cost.

 

[flecc]

In fact the EU agrees with you and are working on a new class of pedelec for solving just this problem which also affects delivery bicycles/tricycles. I read that on bike europe last year but can't find the reference maybe @flecc remembers? From memory: pedelec limited to 25 km/h but motor up to 1000 W continuous rated power.

Yes, it's the L1e-A class. The type approval law for this should be finalised for January 2018. The UK which already had a moped driving licence (group P) has introduced a new one for the L1e-A class, group Q, and this may also apply in some other EU countries.

However, it's been in existence for very many years as the Low Powered Moped Class. Bicycle based and limited to 25 kph but power rating up to 1000 watts, subject to moped laws such as driving licence, registration, insurance, m/c approved helmet, the selection depending on country.

The reason no-one has been aware of it is that no-one made them and there was no demand, a circular impasse.
.

 

[Renax]

Your cars aren't legal, or insured. You blatantly risk other people's health, what else do you do. That's not accepting social responsibility.
You said how much damage could a bike cause?
Well saying death might be considered dramatic. But head injuries can happen to pedestrians.
My accident demos that a bike can easily get a high level of injury and cost.

My cars are currently, and have been for the most part insured, I was at one point in my life sloppy with paying my bills, (theres a long story here, but the bill wasn't paid)
My cars aren't legal, one of them is the wrong color, and 5,1% smaller wheels than stock (limit is 5%) The other one is probably also illegal in some sort of way, can't remember any right now tho.
And risk other peoples health? what are you talking about? I drive like a saint for all you know. Well, driving a car at all is at risk of my own and others life, so is riding a bike, and opening a bag of peanuts without extreme precautions. You try to minimise the risk of any activities, but there will always be some risk left. this risk is the same on a legal 25km/h bike as on a illegal 25km/h bike, (assuming they are pretty much identical in all other ways than rated output) Only difference is if the worst happends I might need to open my wallet more than you.