Has anyone tried to register an S-class in the UK?

There are so many dealers advertising Kalkhoff,Stromer,Bulls S-class e-bikes in the UK. All these dealers make a reference to registering these bikes.....register as a light moped,just register with the DVLA,easily registered,quotes appear on their websites.

There must be hundreds in use on UK roads,has anyone attempted to register one of these bikes.

I would love to import the KTM S-class bikes but need to assure my customers their is a mechanism for registration....I cannot find a way,maybe others have succeeded.

KudosDave

So when i asked dvla about this as i was planning on building an electric motorbike after having a go on the zero motorcycles.....

 

Do the bikes come with a certificate of conformity - if so you can register them like any other motor vehicle - and dislay license plate, helmet, insurance, etc. If not its msva time.

 

No other options according to dvla - not sure what light mopeds are..but only three choices in dvla email i got ....pedelecs we know and love, full insurance motor vehicle with coc, or full insurance motor vehicle with msva if no coc...(also a partial one but much of muchness)

 

I gave up but i dont know of anyway to "register" thst wouldnt involve helmets insurance mots etc etc.

There are so many dealers advertising Kalkhoff,Stromer,Bulls S-class e-bikes in the UK. All these dealers make a reference to registering these bikes.....register as a light moped,just register with the DVLA,easily registered,quotes appear on their websites.

There must be hundreds in use on UK roads,has anyone attempted to register one of these bikes.

I would love to import the KTM S-class bikes but need to assure my customers their is a mechanism for registration....I cannot find a way,maybe others have succeeded.

KudosDave

When we were at the Excel show last year, Stromer were on the next stand. The guy told me that they had type approval, so they could provide them registered exactly the same as their Tomos mopeds.

You can in France. But that is in the EU and you don't like the EU...

 

I wrote about registering an s-pedelec last year I think. BUT...

A pedelec can freewheel down a hill in France at 60 km/h (real world tested by yours truly) and be within the law. An s-pedelec is limited to 45 km/h up hill and down dale so you would get a speeding ticket and fine at the same speed.

When we were at the Excel show last year, Stromer were on the next stand. The guy told me that they had type approval, so they could provide them registered exactly the same as their Tomos mopeds.

 

50 cycles also state that the Kalkhoff S-class have type approval. The forum is full of people who want to use S-class on UK roads so surely it is in the interest of these sellers to come onto this forum and tell us how to do it.

The sellers of electric scooters often offer the scooter for sale with registration included so why don't the likes of Just e-bikes (James) buy one and put it through the registration process. Similarly the seller of the Tomos mopeds must understand the process of registering those mopeds so why not put an S-class Stromer through the registration process.

50 cycles state that the S-class bikes must be registered as Li-moped,so why not put one of their S-class bikes into that classification.

On this forum are many owners of S-class bikes surely one of them has looked into registering their bike so that they can use them legally on UK roads.

KudosDave

I may be wrong but this is how I understand the situation. The S-pedelecs legal elsewhere are type approved as 's-pedelec'. This type is not legal in the UK, hence their type approval certificate numbers are not usable here.

L1e-a = 1 kW 16 mph, L1e-b =speed rated tyres.The only dot marked tyres for 26" push bike rims I can find any info on where fitted to a old Japanese ebike long out of production.I have seen a couple of bikes that got through the MSVA as L1e-b with push bike tyres when they should of had speed rated tyres. Think its some/all 16" motorcyle tyres that fit some 20" push bike rims

 

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if an s-pedelec were built to L1eA and type approved as such then I think you should be able to register it.

The danger is they may be derestricted. 1KW power can let you exceed 28mph leave alone 16mph.

I may have read somewhere that S-pedelecs have many concessions with regard to type of helmets, brakes, lights, tyres, frame, speedo etc - that's why not every country will want to have them on their roads.

Similarly the seller of the Tomos mopeds must understand the process of registering those mopeds so why not put an S-class Stromer through the registration process.

According to the guy from Stromer (Tomos), that's exactly what they do. They do all the registration for you just like when you buy any L1e motorcycle from a motorcycle shop.

 

The big Stromer is more powerful than your average S-class pedelec, so if I was going to have a powerful electric bicycle on the road, that's the sort of thing I'd get. Note the bracket for a number plate (10:15):

I don't think anyone has registered a Stromer ST2 here. IIRC, the ST2 is TA'ed as s-pedelec.

Helen,you were wrong to move this to the S-pedelecs part of the forum.

The whole reason for my posting is that we want to use these bikes legally on UK roads,both 50 cycles and just e-bikes in their advertising suggest that these bikes can be readily registered as light moped classification and therefore used on UK roads once registered.

You,by moving this to the S-class section have made the decision that despite these bikes having type approval they cannot be legally registered ,by any method,on UK roads.

Why is this important?

There is a big growth on e-MTB in Germany at present,which it appears we are being excluded from in the UK.

I want 50 cycles and/or just e-bikes to reveal how these S-class bikes can be registered in the UK.....by moving it to the illegals section of the forum you have made your decision that they cannot be registered.

Please move it back

KudosDave

According to the guy from Stromer (Tomos), that's exactly what they do. They do all the registration for you just like when you buy any L1e motorcycle from a motorcycle shop.

 

The big Stromer is more powerful than your average S-class pedelec, so if I was going to have a powerful electric bicycle on the road, that's the sort of thing I'd get. Note the bracket for a number plate (10:15):

 

D8veh....I had a long chat with a Stromer on seller at the cycle show and he cancelled his Stromer orders when he realised that they couldn't be registered,even as a moped,in the UK.

We need to find someone who has tried to put an S-class through registration as stated on the 50 cycles and/or just e-bike website.

My feelings are that it can't be done,in which case let's try designing a bicycle with say a 750 watt BPM motor that can be registered through the light moped classification.

That would make all these S-class pointless as long as you don't mind insurance,helmets etc.

Fed up that Helen moved this thread when the whole object is to have a road legal powerful bicycle-moped.

KudosDave

D8veh....I had a long chat with a Stromer on seller at the cycle show and he cancelled his Stromer orders when he realised that they couldn't be registered,even as a moped,in the UK.

 

That's exactly to position that I posted at the time of the first claim that the Stromers could be registered. As I said back then, they cannot, and nor can the Kalkhoffs.

 

These S class certifications are not L1e-A or Low Powered Moped class approvals, they only permit registration in the S subclass in those countries authorising them, currently only Germany and The Netherlands in the EU.

 

All the S class bikes fall well short of the requirements, most obviously the head and tail lights, lack of rear number plate illumination, lack of a stoplight and the tyre specifications.

.

is that we want to use these bikes legally on UK roads,both 50 cycles and just e-bikes in their advertising suggest that these bikes can be readily registered as light moped classification and therefore used on UK roads once registered.

You,by moving this to the S-class section have made the decision that despite these bikes having type approval they cannot be legally registered ,by any method,on UK roads.

Why is this important?

There is a big growth on e-MTB in Germany at present,which it appears we are being excluded from in the UK.

I want 50 cycles and/or just e-bikes to reveal how these S-class bikes can be registered in the UK.....by moving it to the illegals section of the forum you have made your decision that they cannot be registered.

Please move it back

KudosDave

Surely it is the dealer that should register it for the buyer. I don't recall ever registering a new vehicle myself.

I may be wrong but this is how I understand the situation. The S-pedelecs legal elsewhere are type approved as 's-pedelec'. This type is not legal in the UK, hence their type approval certificate numbers are not usable here.

 

Not legal in France either that is why it has to be registered as a moped with motor bike helmet and all the other limits that make it much less attractive for my use. France is apparently working on s-pedelec rules aligned with Germany.

BTW: Schwalbe has approved tyres, Magura approved brake levers and Supernova lights with high beam, brake lights and numberplate lighting. This is equipment to moped class norms. In France you need a special horn that makes a moped specific noise (easy to find in a scrap yard).

Helen,you were wrong to move this to the S-pedelecs part of the forum.

..by moving it to the illegals section of the forum you have made your decision that they cannot be registered.

Please move it back

KudosDave

 

I have not made any such decision.

 

We changed this sub forum category a couple of days ago to ‘speed pedelecs and non-EAPCs’ in an attempt to clearly separate posts about EAPCs as they are generally understood to mean in the Electric Bicycles category (250w/15.5mph) and anything more powerful than that in here.

 

I say generally understood because even the Dft called an independent throttled e-bike an ‘in-scope EAPC’ when surely independent throttle propulsion means it can no longer be an EAPC. L1e-A the VCA have termed a ‘powered cycle’ in conversations too. But anyway..

 

I wouldn’t blame you for not reading the whole ‘new name for forum’ thread but essentially by allowing ‘non-EAPC’ discussions to take place in the Electric Bicycles cat we were accused of ‘facilitating criminal activity’ and at risk of being investigated by trading standards, ASA and quite a bit more, to give you an idea of how this came about.

 

So hence we are trying to move posts where the OP is clearly about anything over 250w or not speed restricted to 15.5mph to this category so that newcomers can see a clear distinction between the power and cut off of an EAPC and those above that. The Electric Bicycles category has, for a long time, said that discussions should stick to 250w/15.5mph restricted bikes.

 

I’m very aware that we can’t please all of the people all of the time.

 

For some time now I’ve been trying to get written clarification out of the VCA on the procedure to type approve to L1e-A and L1e-B so that I can pass that on through Pedelecs, fruitlessly it has to be said. Verbally I was told by someone at the VCA along the lines of “there is no problem in type approving a 15.5mph full throttle e-bike to L1e-A and its automatic lighting requirement” but getting that in writing has proved elusive so far. I’ve emailed him again today.

The Stromer ST2 is class L1e not S-pedelec.

https://www.stromerbike.com/en/int/support/support-st2/l1e-e-bike

The Stromer ST2 is class L1e not S-pedelec.

https://www.stromerbike.com/en/int/support/support-st2/l1e-e-bike

 

Or more fully, it's potentially class L1e-B. Unfortunately it doesn't meet the current requirements to be type approved in that class.

.

Right. I have it all now, straight from the horse's mouth. The Stromer ST2 is certified and type approved to L1e. It's supplied with a certificate of conformance and all the necessary paperwork to register it as a class L1e vehicle, so you're buying an L1e moped the same as if you buy one of those imported petrol ones that are provided with similar paperwork for self-registration. Here's an example of one of those:

http://www.directbikes.co.uk/motorbike-faqs.html#register

 

Apparently, they're selling rather well, and there's been a waiting list, but new stock is imminent, so get one while you can if you have a spare £5000.

 

Just to make it clear, these are not S-pedelecs. They're properly designed electric vehicles that meet or exceed all the requirements of L1e. It just happens that they look a bit like a bicycle.

 

Presumably class L1e-B, just to make it clear and differentiate it from the lower speed L1e-A class

in Germany, the ST2 is advertised as s-pedelec.

 

http://www.ebike-base.de/en/ebike/stromer-st2-sport-8236/

I think that some of the confusion stems from the fact that the Swiss, the Germans/Dutch and the Austrians had at one time their own different s-pedelec standards. Uniformity is very recent.

 

The ST1 has two versions: pedelec and s-pedelec. The ST2 only comes with a 500 W motor. Note that the tyres are Stromer specific Schwalbe Big Bens that are speed rated.

 

What I don't like is the direct drive motor, the Swiss are very fond of those (GoSwiss Drive). Regenerative braking makes a lot of sense in the Alps however, without it you would be changing brake pads and disks on a regular basis...

This from their site is what still makes me question and disbelieve what they are saying:

 

The ST2 offers motor assistance up to 45 km/h or 28 mph and a continuous rated power of 500 watts. The ST2 is thus legally a light motorcycle in class L1e with regard to Directive 2002/2004/EC. There is an obligation to register and insure vehicles of this category in most countries. Inform yourself of the related regulations to this class of vehicle in your country before riding for the first time.

 

First, it's definitely qualifies as an S class bike for anyone who want to use it as one.

 

Second, there is no L1e class as such, they need to say L1e-B but seem to be avoiding that. Why?

 

Third, they are quoting a long out of date type approval document, no longer in force. Not only that, they've even stated it's title incorrectly. That's not competent, indicating that they don't even understand the regulations.

 

Fourth, the advice about checking the local regulations, the L1e-B class is EU wide.

 

The illustrations and specs on site are incomplete, but I see no evidence of a stoplight, rear number plate illumination, or horn, all necessary to meet the L1e-B requirements for type approval.

.

I find all this puzzling, and no better than what 50cycles have been saying about the Kalkhoff S class bikes. I'd like to see one actually registered, something that hasn't been demonstrated with the Kalkhoff bikes yet after years of 50cycles making this same claim.

 

I'm sure the truth is that it's not possible.

.

Edited May 4, 20169 yr by flecc

I have not made any such decision.

 

We changed this sub forum category a couple of days ago to ‘speed pedelecs and non-EAPCs’ in an attempt to clearly separate posts about EAPCs as they are generally understood to mean in the Electric Bicycles category (250w/15.5mph) and anything more powerful than that in here.

 

I say generally understood because even the Dft called an independent throttled e-bike an ‘in-scope EAPC’ when surely independent throttle propulsion means it can no longer be an EAPC. L1e-A the VCA have termed a ‘powered cycle’ in conversations too. But anyway..

 

I wouldn’t blame you for not reading the whole ‘new name for forum’ thread but essentially by allowing ‘non-EAPC’ discussions to take place in the Electric Bicycles cat we were accused of ‘facilitating criminal activity’ and at risk of being investigated by trading standards, ASA and quite a bit more, to give you an idea of how this came about.

 

So hence we are trying to move posts where the OP is clearly about anything over 250w or not speed restricted to 15.5mph to this category so that newcomers can see a clear distinction between the power and cut off of an EAPC and those above that. The Electric Bicycles category has, for a long time, said that discussions should stick to 250w/15.5mph restricted bikes.

 

I’m very aware that we can’t please all of the people all of the time.

 

For some time now I’ve been trying to get written clarification out of the VCA on the procedure to type approve to L1e-A and L1e-B so that I can pass that on through Pedelecs, fruitlessly it has to be said. Verbally I was told by someone at the VCA along the lines of “there is no problem in type approving a 15.5mph full throttle e-bike to L1e-A and its automatic lighting requirement” but getting that in writing has proved elusive so far. I’ve emailed him again today.

 

Helen,the accusation that because someone talks about S-Pedelecs or any other non EAPC conversation on your forum is promoting criminal activity is complete rubbish.

However,I must say that all the abuse that seems to come from a couple of members is affecting the friendly nature of this forum and starting to leave me cold about contributing to it,I know that Cyclezee and David of Amps feels similar.

I also have been trying to get out of VOSA the actual mechanism of how you register an S-class to L1e-A ,despite presenting it as simple as possible they appeared either disinterested or lacked understanding. 50 cycles and just e-bikes still state on their websites that their S-class bikes can be UK light moped registered,but when challenged how to do so,they stop posting.

Hence why I asked had a customer tried-no response so far,so we must assume that you cannot register to L1e-A.

With regard to the matter of the legality of 15,5 mph throttles,the communications from the Dft are so ambiguous that I question whether the government understand the current situation themselves.

KudosDave

Only posting this purely for interest, not making any points or starting an argument.

I think any bike could be registered eventually through the SVA system( MVSA) It would not be possible to do so as an S class pedelec simply because as yet that catagory does not exist in UK.

There is one for light moped...so even without certificate of conformity you could get details required to pass the MSVA for the particular class required but when you have anything to do with what was SVA you do question the sense of EU/ UK law..

For example..

The emission standards for a motorbike are different to those of cars.

If you take a brand new engine from a bike ( which must have passed equivalent of SVA) and stick it in a car, hey presto it fails emissions.. Cure fit power commander and a catylitic converter. Result pass SVA but engine well down on power..OK remove cat and up mixture on power commander. Car fine for future MOT but you,ve now got a £400 hand built cat unused. Answer...rent it out to folk wanting to pass SVA...believe it or not all legal !

Once spoke to examiner whilst waiting for a car I was having SVA,d. He was testing Mitsubishi FTO Grey Import.

" Look here, I marked these wheels last week , seen them 6 times now."

 

The standard wheels fail SVA ( on radius of corners) Firm bringing cars in from Japan had one set of compliant wheels. They went on every car !

At one point firms were hiring out an SVA kit. Including nut covers, compliant wheels, emission equipment,seats...whatever you needed. Pass SVA , remove and return kit...car still passes less stringent mot !! All legal.

All crazy ..

But you get your bit of paper to prove how legal you are !!!

Edited May 4, 20169 yr by (NoLongerRegistered#15675)