Has anyone heard of or tried Toseven mid drive?

[Domm]

Hi, I'm looking to get a tongsheng tsdz2 and I came across this alternative from "TOSEVEN" on psw power website:

TOSEVEN Mid Drive Motor Kit

TOSEVEN Mid Drive Motor Kit

www.pswpower.com

I asked them the difference/benefit/pros/cons and they replied that it has a different torque sensor and sent the attached pic. I have no idea what this means or if it is better or makes it worth the risk of trying the lesser known/supported motor.

Any thoughts appreciated from those who know about these things, thanks!

 

[Bikes4two]

Not heard of them.

When considering any ebike kit, one needs to bear in mind that they are usually made to a low-ish price point and therefore it is possible to get problems with them.

Now that's no big deal if the kit, or motor in this case, has a wide support community and availability of spares should they be needed.

The Bafang and Tong Sheng (TSDZ2) communities are examples of this whereas who the heck makes 'TOSEVEN'?

 

[Nealh]

From my perspective it looks to me like a product upgraded model with rebranding (to all intenses and purposes the shape and outward design looks the same), after the court case Bafang won regarding the Tongsheng tsdz2 nearly all references to the model name were pulled on all the major selling sites. It was then sold incognito but clearly a Tongsheng.
The newer tsdz2 is believed to have a slightly different remodelled TS drive shaft as there were some issues with the older model.

More torque to match competitors and a greater higher gearing ratio, it all sounds quite good but the issue is will the controller be programmable with the current OSF or is it the new controller that isn't OSF compatible.

 

[Nealh]

To7 Sozhou is a new start up company started in 2021, time will tell if we see the tsdz2 totally disappear form the market but I believe this to be a newer model upgrade, possibly we hope better engineering and reliability with a complete new rebranding of the tsdz2.

The To7 midrive has the same type of rear A frame retainer and has updated new lcd displays, outwardly looks identical.
It will need a guinea pig to buy one and compare the internal design , likely some one on ES will soon jump in and disect one.

 

[AGS]

Their B7 motor looks interesting for those who want a 750 watt rear hub motor and can stretch their drop out to 138mm.

Welcome to Suzhou Toseven New Energy Technology Co., Ltd.

Welcome to Suzhou Toseven New Energy Technology Co., Ltd.

www.to7motor.cn

 

[Nealh]

Aikema also have the 800w geared hub that needs no d/o strectching and claim > 60n.m.

 

[Domm]

I thought Tongsheng had already improved/upgraded to the Tsdz2B to address some issues? Or is the toseven further improved? I had no idea about any court case. Psw power seem to be openly selling the Tongsheng tsdz2b as do sellers on amazon, ebay, Ali express so maybe this new version is OK?

 

[Domm]

From my perspective it looks to me like a product upgraded model with rebranding (to all intenses and purposes the shape and outward design looks the same), after the court case Bafang won regarding the Tongsheng tsdz2 nearly all references to the model name were pulled on all the major selling sites. It was then sold incognito but clearly a Tongsheng.
The newer tsdz2 is believed to have a slightly different remodelled TS drive shaft as there were some issues with the older model.

More torque to match competitors and a greater higher gearing ratio, it all sounds quite good but the issue is will the controller be programmable with the current OSF or is it the new controller that isn't OSF compatible.

I thought Tongsheng had already improved/upgraded to the Tsdz2B to address some issues? Or is the toseven further improved? I had no idea about any court case. Psw power seem to be openly selling the Tongsheng tsdz2b as do sellers on amazon, ebay, Ali express so maybe this new version is OK?

 

[guerney]

This is the only mid-drive on their website... not much info, but there is a contact form - enquiring about 10,000 units could get questions answered?

Welcome to Suzhou Toseven New Energy Technology Co., Ltd.

Welcome to Suzhou Toseven New Energy Technology Co., Ltd.

to7motor.cn

 

[alexfnoble]

This is the only mid-drive on their website... not much info, but there is a contact form - enquiring about 10,000 units could get questions answered?

Welcome to Suzhou Toseven New Energy Technology Co., Ltd.

Welcome to Suzhou Toseven New Energy Technology Co., Ltd.

to7motor.cn

Hi guys

Im alex, in working for toseven. Im happy to answer any questions!

Thanks

 

[Bikes4two]

Welcome to the forum @alexfnoble and thanks for offering to answer questions of which I can expect you will get many.

1 - Is the Toseven mid drive a derivative of the TSDZ2 and if so, what are the advantages of the Toseven over the TSDZ2
2 - if the Toseven is a new design, how do you view it in comparison to the TSDZ2, that is, how has it been improved?
3 - One of the great features of the TSDZ2 is to be able to fine tune it with the Open Source Firmware. Does the OSF work with the Toseven or are there similar software tools to alter the Toseven ride characteristics?

That'll do for starters, thanks.

 

[alexfnoble]

The new DM-01 and DM-02 are not a derivative of the tongsheng Motors. They are a new design
There is some influence as the lead engineer was the engineer responsible for producing the tongsheng motors who's came over to form the new company

the new design is focused on build quality and reliability. They can withstand a lot more power

we have transitioned to UART controller's we intend to keep because its open to community development

we intend to release the motor programming software to the community/ end users and activity engage with them on forums like this

being a step up there is an increase in price.
We don't intend to be dragged into competing on price. We will aim to deliver a quality product with warranty/ servicing and spares availability

if anymore questions please let me know

thanks
Alex

p.s no idea why it switched to bold

 

[guerney]

we have transitioned to UART controller's we intend to keep because its open to community development

we intend to release the motor programming software to the community/ end users and activity engage with them on forums like this

That's precisely what will make your motors popular: Users value fine-tuning ability. For me it's the deciding factor. Could you possibly upload screenshots showing all parameters, especially all of the user-changeable parameters of your software, and explain their function?

p.s no idea why it switched to bold

You've hit CTRL+B while typing.

 

[Nealh]

Welcome and thank you for the information on this Alex.
Outwardly then that is why the design looks very similar .
We will have to wait for real world testing to see how good it is.

 

[matthewslack]

The new DM-01 and DM-02 are not a derivative of the tongsheng Motors. They are a new design
There is some influence as the lead engineer was the engineer responsible for producing the tongsheng motors who's came over to form the new company

the new design is focused on build quality and reliability. They can withstand a lot more power

we have transitioned to UART controller's we intend to keep because its open to community development

we intend to release the motor programming software to the community/ end users and activity engage with them on forums like this

being a step up there is an increase in price.
We don't intend to be dragged into competing on price. We will aim to deliver a quality product with warranty/ servicing and spares availability

if anymore questions please let me know

thanks
Alex

p.s no idea why it switched to bold

How many volunteers to road test the free units you would like to send us are you looking for?

I can offer specialist solar testing.

 

[Nealh]

One expects any OSF developement will come via the German or other Eu forums and esp the Endless Sphere forum in the US . They completely remapped the software for the TSDZ2 and now the OSF is used world wide by many users.

 

[Bikes4two]

Thankyou @alexfnoble for your reply and if your new want turns out to be all that you hope for then it'll do very well.

There are those that have used the TSDZ2 who have had technical problems and would welcome a more robust motor capable of delivering more power and taking harsher treatment, e.g. for the heavier rider wanting max power over mountain trails, something the TSDZ2 sometimes has problems with (Blue Gear, Axle breakages, overheating to name but three although modest riders like myself on normal roads at 250w nominal, have had no such issues.).

The ability to fine tune the new motor's characteristics will be a key feature and even more so if the tuning can be done via smart phone on a blue-tooth connection.

It's all rather exciting!

 

[LeszekPe]

Dear All, I'm kind of new here, but found this forum when looking for more info about To7 motors. @alexfnoble - is there any chance to get one of these new mid drives in Europe, particularly in Poland? What's your distribution network ?

 

[alexfnoble]

we have transitioned to UART controller's we intend to keep because its open to community development

we intend to release the motor programming software to the community/ end users and actively engage with them on forums like this

Sorry just correcting typos in this

 

[alexfnoble]

Dear All, I'm kind of new here, but found this forum when looking for more info about To7 motors. @alexfnoble - is there any chance to get one of these new mid drives in Europe, particularly in Poland? What's your distribution network ?

We are just establishing it. Are you a Distributer/Retailer or end user?