Has anyone heard of or tried Toseven mid drive?

[Blacklite]

yes please.
My reply is in the context of a general crank motor which may be a Bosch (which I believe uses field weakening too) or others that may have a cadence sensor. The TSDZ2 does not have a cadence sensor.

And further proof the TSDZ2 has a cadence sensor from these lines in one of the OSF codes.

TSDZ2-Smart-EBike-1/src/controller/ebike_app.c at master · emmebrusa/TSDZ2-Smart-EBike-1

TSDZ2 Open Source Firmware adapted to VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18 displays - emmebrusa/TSDZ2-Smart-EBike-1

github.com

Lines 1591 through 1626.
See a few references to a cadence sensor there?
That's an entire function called "calc_cadence" using variables from a cadence sensor.

 

[Woosh]

Yes, just had a quick look. I can't read much on my phone but it seems that the cadence is calculated from the period of the current pulse, not read from a physical sensor. Will look again tonight. I am curious to see how it's done.

 

[Nealh]

With tsdz if the TS fails one can with the OSF actuate Cadence as the power source, Asfaik this isn't possible with out OSF .

 

[Woosh]

With tsdz if the TS fails one can with the OSF actuate Cadence as the power source, Asfaik this isn't possible with out OSF .

I don't think you can. There is no connector for a cadence sensor on the TSDZ2 controller. If the torque sensor fails, you have to replace the torque sensor.
It may be possible to replace a failed torque sensor with a simple potentiometer though. Thinking about it, one could rig up an arduino...

edit:
I was wrong. @Nealh Line 922: apply_cadence_assist() is what you were talking about.

 

[Blacklite]

I don't think you can. There is no connector for a cadence sensor on the TSDZ2 controller. If the torque sensor fails, you have to replace the torque sensor.
It may be possible to replace a failed torque sensor with a simple potentiometer though. Thinking about it, one could rig up an arduino...

You can, and it’s a documented feature. Look up the code for cadence mode in the OSF I linked. You can use this mode with a broken torque sensor and have power output calculated from cadence only. There is a cadence sensor built in to the controller of the TSDZ2. It is a physical hall sensor. The black bit in this image. There are then 20 magnets in the the torque sensor ring that trigger this cadence sensor.



https://github.com/OpenSourceEBike/TSDZ2_wiki/wiki/FAQ#user-content-PAS_sensor_fail

I’m genuinely intrigued why you keep sprouting all this nonsense about the TDSZ2 and its sensors, when even a cursory examination of either the code or a motor itself will show you that you are incorrect. I literally told you what pins on the STM8 microcontroller the physical cadence sensor is connected to and you keep claiming there isn’t a physical sensor.
I guess at least imagining there isn’t one means you can’t think it has anything to do with the motor advance angle, your delusion from several posts ago.

 

[Woosh]

I haven't noticed the PAS sensor on the controller casing before! Now you have pointed it out, it's a very clever idea!

edit:
BTW, I have now spotted my mistakes in post #102 and #104. I read the code for the first time on my mobile phone while sitting at the dctor's surgery this afternoon. I have now re-read the code on my laptop and saw my mistakes. You did indeed point me to the right portion of code.

 

[Katlee]

Hi, I'm looking to get a tongsheng tsdz2 and I came across this alternative from "TOSEVEN" on psw power website:

TOSEVEN Mid Drive Motor Kit

TOSEVEN Mid Drive Motor Kit

www.pswpower.com

I asked them the difference/benefit/pros/cons and they replied that it has a different torque sensor and sent the attached pic. I have no idea what this means or if it is better or makes it worth the risk of trying the lesser known/supported motor.

Any thoughts appreciated from those who know about these things, thanks!

View attachment 50719
[/from 21--25 is the torque detective part which is more sensitive or active for the padeling , but the tongsheng tsdz2 is e is the change relationship between the Deformation of the axis and force on the padel, the base is the you padel ,and force transformed to axis, so the axis will deform, and then the sensor on the axis will be shifting , then the controller judge the rider is riding ....but six or 12 months later The amount of deformation of metal materials is uncontrollable,that is their shortage

 

[Katlee]

Dear All, I'm kind of new here, but found this forum when looking for more info about To7 motors. @alexfnoble - is there any chance to get one of these new mid drives in Europe, particularly in Poland? What's your distribution network ?

try to alibaba and seach ,you will find it

 

[Katlee]

I thought Tongsheng had already improved/upgraded to the Tsdz2B to address some issues? Or is the toseven further improved? I had no idea about any court case. Psw power seem to be openly selling the Tongsheng tsdz2b as do sellers on amazon, ebay, Ali express so maybe this new version is OK?

I donot think the Tsdz2B can inprove or update this problem, first their most importment chif engineer left,casue the boss only wanna save the cost , second that's why they lost orders from MFC ,

 

[Katlee]

You can, and it’s a documented feature. Look up the code for cadence mode in the OSF I linked. You can use this mode with a broken torque sensor and have power output calculated from cadence only. There is a cadence sensor built in to the controller of the TSDZ2. It is a physical hall sensor. The black bit in this image. There are then 20 magnets in the the torque sensor ring that trigger this cadence sensor.

View attachment 51086

https://github.com/OpenSourceEBike/TSDZ2_wiki/wiki/FAQ#user-content-PAS_sensor_fail

I’m genuinely intrigued why you keep sprouting all this nonsense about the TDSZ2 and its sensors, when even a cursory examination of either the code or a motor itself will show you that you are incorrect. I literally told you what pins on the STM8 microcontroller the physical cadence sensor is connected to and you keep claiming there isn’t a physical sensor.
I guess at least imagining there isn’t one means you can’t think it has anything to do with the motor advance angle, your delusion from several posts ago.

just quick repose for what it is for the pic , this is the we called the detective sensor or speed sensor detector, which works with the maganet ring under the big gear , I think, and the left pic ,means the distance between snesor and maganet is too close , please check the washer --------sorry just new join and wanna give some story behind the priducts

 

[Woosh]

I donot think the Tsdz2B can inprove or update this problem, first their most importment chif engineer left,casue the boss only wanna save the cost , second that's why they lost orders from MFC ,

who is MFC? and are you associated with to7?

 

[Katlee]

who is MFC? and are you associated with to7?

you doesnot know MFC? the big brand from France, yes , and any backgroud information if you wannated ,I can do explain

 

[Katlee]

and about the middle motor , I worked in this industry for more than five years , from repair and testing ....and question we can discuss here

 

[Woosh]

you doesnot know MFC? the big brand from France, yes , and any backgroud information if you wannated ,I can do explain

MFC in France: OK, got it. They are indeed a very big firm.
I'll PM you later. BTW, did you design the new torque sensor for to7?

 

[Katlee]

MFC in France: OK, got it. They are indeed a very big firm.
I'll PM you later. BTW, did you design the new torque sensor for to7?

yes. and now proposaled and mass producted series middle motors and hubs

 

[guerney]

Just look at Microsoft Windows for instance - testing before release can only go so far and certainly not as far as many millions of end users .
It's not always a good idea to be a 'first adopter.'

I agree - let the lemmings die first, forming a bridge.

GRC | Never10

Never10 - Disable Windows 10 Automatic Upgrade

www.grc.com

yes. and now proposaled and mass producted series middle motors and hubs

Where can I buy one 36V 250W DM02 Mid Drive Motor kit, without battery?

try to alibaba and seach ,you will find it

There's a two motor kit purchase minimum on all Alibaba listings, and every listing contradicts that 2 piece minimum:

This product is no longer available.

This product is no longer available.

www.alibaba.com

Also, if the same motor is rated for 350W, with the only difference to the 250W version being a firmware setting, how can a bicycle converted using this motor kit be a UK road legal pedelec? Is the motor engraved or labelled with the rated power? Is it labelled or engraved as 250W or 350W? That new motor of yours is as UK legal as the TSDZ2s, which are also rated higher than 250W and limited to 250W by firmware using the same controller.

UK Electric Bike Law – Pedelecs – Electric Bike Community

www.pedelecs.co.uk

Rated Power	250W – 350W

https://to7motor.com/product/dm02-mid-drive-motor/

There's been no further mention of a configurator tool beyond an early post by our resident Toseven reps @alexfnoble and @Katlee And they've left a great many questions on this thread unasnwered - so much for engaging with users on forums! I bet that's pretty much the same story on Discord I'm simply going to buy another reliable and UK legal Bafang BBS01B.

 

[guerney]

Im really here for constructive feedback on our products.

What products? Nobody has one. You can't narrow the scope of discussion on open forums.

I wont get drawn into answering speculation on our staff, agreements or ip, because from experience its never ending and isnt productive.

It wouldn't be never ending if you provided clarity.

 

[pxl666]

seriously addressing tsdz2 weaknesses is so simple . radiators and temperature sensors . factory app for customizing motor for user needs . open protocol for diy communication . better materials for better robustness maybe . optional BT communication . better sealing . factory 34t nw chainrings option . typical displays instead of proprietary ones ...
it would be great if motor would work without display using BT with phone only...

 

[Woosh]

radiators and temperature sensors

agreed, at least a radiator. The TSDZ2 can reach 70C - 80 C inside after 10 minutes while the outside is just warm to touch.

 

[pxl666]

last but not least , tsdz2 is dirt cheap compared to any other system . moreover , despite all its flaws - out of the box it's pretty decent , compact , easy to install - system . and with factory fw is still quite usable - i did full season of intense mtb climbing with factory fw and was happy with it . on the other hand - cyc photon costs sick money and overheats quickly , delivery time to europe is ridiculous and makes no sense imho to pay that much when for little more one can get bafang integrated motor ...(g510 / m600 / m500)

so take this into consideration - as more and more factory ebikes is available second hand - the market for conversion is shrinking thus it has to be reasonably priced - 400 - 450$ is pretty much max price i'd take into consideration - above that i'd save money and go for m500