Has anyone heard of or tried Toseven mid drive?
- Thread starter Domm
- Start date
Me too, but lack of any info is a bit frustrating. I started thinking about buying CYC Photon, but that is a bit expensive for DIY if you calculate VAT and Customs on top of the price. With battery you come close to factory made hardtail bikes with Bosch CX motor.
There is a rumor on Discord that some new DM01 version will be made, with improved cooling. Also no info if that is real and when that might happen.
Youtube review of DM01 was great, but it seems a bit heavy if you want pedalling assist motor rather than turn your bicycle to motorcycle.
I read/saw somewhere that To7 will attend on some Bicycle fare/expo end of this month, maybe there will be more info about everything after that? Who knows.
Anyway, we can only wait and see what happens.
There is a rumor on Discord that some new DM01 version will be made, with improved cooling. Also no info if that is real and when that might happen.
Youtube review of DM01 was great, but it seems a bit heavy if you want pedalling assist motor rather than turn your bicycle to motorcycle.
I read/saw somewhere that To7 will attend on some Bicycle fare/expo end of this month, maybe there will be more info about everything after that? Who knows.
Anyway, we can only wait and see what happens.
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Hi Alex! Can I install the DM01 or DM02 in a carbon frame. Have they more space than TSDZ?
The 02 has a lot more space. It's really difficult to say without more detail.
What frame is it?
Can you take your bottom bracket out and measure the thickness of the frame at that point. Also maybe send some pictures
Saw this new vid on youtube might be of interest, looks at DM01 and DM02.
New for 2023, DIY ebike conversion motors from TOSEVEN! my first thoughts. - YouTube
New for 2023, DIY ebike conversion motors from TOSEVEN! my first thoughts. - YouTube
the video does not add much to what we already know. Also, he spends a fair amount of time talking about maximum power which is irrelevant to most of us who want a road legal motor.
I would like to see someone to show inside those motors. That would convince me why I should want to choose a newcomer over a known quamtity.
A picture is worth a thousand words, this is quite a negative reply, the point is there is more to come form this source, this is what I was trying to alert others to.
So what, that's his business model the clue is in the name, not really relevant though the point is this is the first good look at the DM02 externally. The fact its a 500w model isnt going to matter too much its going to be the same as a 250w physically. As far as performance goes I will look elsewhere for that info. Generally you dont get all the info on a kit from one source you have to go to several, this is just one of those.
If I thought like that I would never have bought my tsdz2. I know its flawed but its the best I could find. The info on it was hard to find and mostly came from several sources on forums, sifting out the ill informed and biased to get a clearer picture. I am applying the same process to this as the TSDZ2,its got a way to go but at the moment im not picking up any deal breakers, the TSDZ2 was a lot worse.
the TSDZ2 was the best since sliced bread when it first appears.
Same goes for the Bafang BBS01. The BBS01 became BBS01B with the issues identified and corrected.
Issues on the TSDZ2 are few and far in between for typical road legal kits and the fixes are already tried and tested, albeit that Tongsheng took a long time to come up with the TSDZ2B compared to Bafang BBS01B. The reason for the delay may be that Bafang have superior resources.
From my point of view as a vendor, support costs money and goodwill. I would take manufacturers' claims with a small dose of skepticism until somebody shares their experience after clocking up a fair amount of miles with the new kit.
It's a shame that Ananda has not made a bottom bracket version of their well proven mid-drive motors. They would have given to both BBS01B and TSDZ2B a good kicking.
Same goes for the Bafang BBS01. The BBS01 became BBS01B with the issues identified and corrected.
Issues on the TSDZ2 are few and far in between for typical road legal kits and the fixes are already tried and tested, albeit that Tongsheng took a long time to come up with the TSDZ2B compared to Bafang BBS01B. The reason for the delay may be that Bafang have superior resources.
From my point of view as a vendor, support costs money and goodwill. I would take manufacturers' claims with a small dose of skepticism until somebody shares their experience after clocking up a fair amount of miles with the new kit.
It's a shame that Ananda has not made a bottom bracket version of their well proven mid-drive motors. They would have given to both BBS01B and TSDZ2B a good kicking.
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If you go by the number of posts on forums the TSDZ2 is the least reliable of any of the well known kits, but its also the best supported. The thing that swung it for me was that there are lots of spares more so than any other option. Thats potentially because there is a healthy market for spares. The general impression is of a motor is working without enough margin on the physical parameters that can break if pushed too hard.
While yes it should be more reliable if you dont push it too hard, how is the ordinary user to judge that. Generally its better if your motor does not have a reputation for breaking, then this is not an issue. I am willing to take it apart and fix it but not all are the same.
The new TSDZ2B doesnt seem to address one of the major issues, the breaking axels. There are also some reports of reduced power output on the ES forum as I recall, although more reports are needed to convince me all suffer from this.
The TSDZ2 is still the best option but its not out of the woods yet my thinking is that if someone comes up with a product that has the advantages but eliminates the disadvantages thats where I should go. I am believe thats what others are thinking. The DM02 has muddied the water I personally would not buy another tsdz2 till the picture was clearer. The hope is that the DM02 has addressed the issues that Tongsheng have failed to do so. If not I will stick with the TSDZ2.
for me, the bottom bracket axle is a non-issue. I have never seen a broken one, leave alone replacing it. On the other hand, the failing blue gear is a nightmare for support. This is now fixed.
The second most complained about is the lateral play of the bottom bracket axle. It's an annoyance and fixable with additional ballbearings but why should customers be exposed to it in the first place?
Personally I would not be worried too much by axel play unless severe. I would be worried about the axel breaking, more so that it doesnt seem to have been addressed. While most probably wont suffer from this, you always have the thought in the back of your mind, will it break in the middle of nowhere, some haven't got more than a few miles from new. I have seen reference to poor quality of materials, bad design for circlip slots being issues, also if the user was too heavy, 105kg from memory Im less than that. There is a pattern here this does not get a mention with other makes.
from the pictures of the broken axle, it looks like it's a fault in the casting process. Also. who supplied this broken axle? It's not the original TSDZ2.
That looks like a fat bike mod, it seems to be more common with them but failures are reported by no means exclusively with these. Again there is a pattern the modified design just puts more stress on it. The failure seems to mostly occur at the circlip slot on the RHS as seems to be the case here. This is widely discussed on forums, there are better pictures they all seem to be fatigue failures. This suggests design and or materials to me as is reported is at fault. This is also probably due to the loading applied but why is this component being designed so close to tolerence? What is a safe loading? Me I just hope, use a high cadence and dont stand on the pedals to much.
can you find me a picture of an original TSDZ2 broken axle?
the pictures I found show thermal metal fatigue near the circlip. I don't think it's an issue of tolerance (like the ballbearing wobbles on the axle), it's more likely due to poor material or error in their casting process. I have bought similar parts from Bafang for my project and you can't fault the quality. Both axles have similar diameters.
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The 250W and 500W are Physically different motors. the stator,rotor are bigger and the controller is matched, there is a difference in size and weight + price
We have had quite a few motors out for a while now with some of the well known stockists/sellers of mid-drives and some are close to publishing their own thoughts and and reviews any day now
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