Has anyone heard of or tried Toseven mid drive?

[guerney]

Is this going to be the longest thread in Pedelecs history.

It'll never beat the (currently) 5,485 page long Brexit thread!

Brexit, for once some facts.

Many are rightly asking for facts instead of the inane propaganda that both sides are issuing in the EU dabate. Here for once is an actual case which includes many of the consequences that will accompany Brexit and any attempt to limit EU migration. This isn't part of the propaganda, it's...

www.pedelecs.co.uk

 

[Blacklite]

why I like the new torque sensor in the DM-02?

1. the coils (16,17 on the diagram) are much smaller.
2. The Hall sensor is replaced by a strain gauge (17), that should not suffer from stray magnetic field and give a more stable output.
One weakness of the TSDZ2 torque sensor that is still not fixed is the sensor can't give an output until some time after the shaft moves so the controller is not ready until some time after you start pedalling.

Beside the torque sensor, there are two extra ballbearings (9, 35), they should help reducing the play and flex in the shaft. I would have liked to see an ISIS instead of square taper.

The extra bearings are an excellent addition.

For the torque sensor the diagram doesn’t really show if the sensor is inductively coupled or if part 16 is actually just electrical contacts for connection.

 

[alexfnoble]

This thread really needs to calm down with all the insults etc being thrown around.

There's far too much toxic behaviour in here. All the back and forth is detracting from any ability to discuss the products in a productive way.

I only have enough time in the day to work with constructive people. Criticism is welcome when constructive but this thread has really got out of control with totally off topic arguing,bickering etc

Can those engaged in it please tone it down or take it somewhere else

 

[Woosh]

Blacklite, It seems part 16 is the fixed coil and 17 rotating with the shaft.

 

[elinx]

The extra bearings are an excellent addition.

For the torque sensor the diagram doesn’t really show if the sensor is inductively coupled or if part 16 is actually just electrical contacts for connection.

The bearings are not extra, but the advantage is that they are placed on the outer sides of the shaft.
(Which is the same what you can do with the extra bearings on a Tsdz2)
I hope these bearings aren't "drop-fit" as with Tsdz2, so there isn't any play and better waterproof.

About the torquesensor it isn't clear how the signal of it will be transported to the controller.
It depends if the torquesensor must rotate or works with a spring mechanism and just partly rotate.

 

[guerney]

This thread really needs to calm down with all the insults etc being thrown around.

There's far too much toxic behaviour in here.

Yes

 

[Blacklite]

Blacklite, It seems part 16 is the fixed coil and 17 rotating with the shaft.

I don't particularly want to argue, but I don't think the diagram gives enough information to show that. Maybe it is, maybe it is not.

 

[Woosh]

I don't particularly want to argue, but I don't think the diagram gives enough information to show that. Maybe it is, maybe it is not.

agreed.
The drawing may show only the placement and not the working principle. It may not be a strain gauge at all.

 

[Blacklite]

agreed.
The drawing may show only the placement and not the working principle. It may not be a strain gauge at all.

It's not if it is a strain gauge that interests me... it's the mechanism of transmission of that information.

An inductance transmission that rotates is always going to be subject to movement. And forgive me for not remembering all my physics and engineering classes, but from memory inductive transfer is at least quadratic in terms of distance between coils I think... So small changes in how the coils interact can be magnified greatly with manufacturing tolerances.

 

[Woosh]

It's not if it is a strain gauge that interests me... it's the mechanism of transmission of that information.

An inductance transmission that rotates is always going to be subject to movement. And forgive me for not remembering all my physics and engineering classes, but from memory inductive transfer is at least quadratic in terms of distance between coils I think... So small changes in how the coils interact can be magnified greatly with manufacturing tolerances.

It's not that bad.
The basic equation is Faraday's law
Ε = – N dφ/dt
Where, ε = Induced emf N = number of turns of the coil dφ/dt = instantaneous change in magnetic flux with time.
The coils are placed very closely, you are looking at perhaps 2%-5% loss in φ across the air gap.
The main issue is the weakness of the signal.
The range of torque that you want to measure creates about 1%-2% change in resistance of the strain gauge. If your transfer has zero loss, you would get back the same 1%-2% change in the current going through the fixed coil but you are limited by the current in the fixed coil, so it would be difficult to get even2% of 5V coming back. The return signal may be drowned out by the energising signal.

 

[Blacklite]

It's not that bad.
The basic equation is Faraday's law
Ε = – N dφ/dt
Where, ε = Induced emf N = number of turns of the coil dφ/dt = instantaneous change in magnetic flux with time.
The coils are placed very closely, you are looking at perhaps 2%-5% loss in φ across the air gap.
The main issue is the weakness of the signal.
The range of torque that you want to measure creates about 1%-2% change in resistance of the strain gauge. If your transfer has zero loss, you would get back the same 1%-2% change in the current going through the fixed coil but you are limited by the current in the fixed coil, so it would be difficult to get even2% of 5V coming back. The return signal may be drowned out by the energising signal.

I guess it's interesting that you assume it's inductive transfer. Are you looking at it beyond your current perceptions?

 

[flecc]

It'll never beat the (currently) 5,485 page long Brexit thread!

Brexit, for once some facts.

Many are rightly asking for facts instead of the inane propaganda that both sides are issuing in the EU dabate. Here for once is an actual case which includes many of the consequences that will accompany Brexit and any attempt to limit EU migration. This isn't part of the propaganda, it's...

www.pedelecs.co.uk

Neptune's thread Electronic Cigarettes tried and reached 101 pages, but it appears to have been removed or blocked from access now.
.

 

[Woosh]

@Blacklite It's just deduction. Their comparison table says strain gauge so its measurements have to be transferred. The two coils are clearly marked. There is no reasonable arrangement other than induction transfers

 

[Nealh]

The axle shaft bearing cost about £6 - £10 for the TSDZ2 and takes all of 20 secs to fit with the cranks removed , it isn't rocket science to to do the job.
Woosh for instance could add a note in the kit box to mention the simple modification to aid the lateral axle movement.

For the more diy minded the heat mods cost about £20/£25 for the materials and a simple heat sensor with a small display .

 

[Woosh]

I will certainly look into fitting extra ball-bearings before shipping the TSDZ2.

 

[guerney]

For the torque sensor the diagram doesn’t really show if the sensor is inductively coupled or if part 16 is actually just electrical contacts for connection.

Can't be wires ending in brushes surely?

 

[guerney]

Neptune's thread Electronic Cigarettes tried and reached 101 pages, but it appears to have been removed or blocked from access now.
.

A mere 101 pages at 2nd place? Abuse, ferocious wars, intimidation, libel, trolling, threats and other haven't stopped that Brexit thread!

 

[Blacklite]

@Blacklite It's just deduction. Their comparison table says strain gauge so its measurements have to be transferred. The two coils are clearly marked. There is no reasonable arrangement other than induction transfers

Can you please show me where the “the two coils are clearly marked”?

It may be inductively transferred. It may not be. Your approach though of assuming something, saying there is proof, and then revealing your proof is just because you have made the assumption is one of the more interesting logical fallacies I have ever seen.

 

[Woosh]

Blacklite, component 16 looks to me like the fixed coil in the Tongsheng design. If you disagree then there is no point for the two of us going in circles.
If you agree, then it follows that it has to pick-up the signal from another coil of the same shape and size immediately next to it to avoid losing the tiny flux change. That can only be component 17.
If you agree, l can then speculate that if it's not the old Hall sensor but a strain gauge then the strain gauge needs an amplifier of some sort located on the shaft such as an nfc or rfid chip.

 

[guerney]

3-D-printed cube dials into energy harvesting

Ambient energy emitted by cellular phones and modems can be captured and converted into electricity using unusually shaped technology.

phys.org