Has anybody bought Ebike through crowdfunding platform like Indiegogo?

[grazie]

Thanks, but £700+ quid? Ouch!

Are there cheaper options? I thought prices had dropped recently. Happy to mix & match or shop abroad, if that gets me a cheaper deal.

Are the hub motors not suitable due to being in a hilly area? I prefer the hub motor approach as changing to/from an eBike would be a simple case of changing the rear wheel. That's why the Copenhagen concept is very appealing.

 

[Woosh]

Are the hub motor not suitable due to being in a hilly area?

it's not that. The difference between a hub kit (worth about £200) and a crank drive like the GSM (£200 + controller), it's about £50 for the crank drive gearbox. The battery costs the same. For the BBS01/02 option, it's about £120 more than the equivalent hub kit because Bafang charge a lot for the CD kits. If you go for the hub kit, you would have to extend the pedal sensor cable on top of the speed sensor cable. The usual threat to crank drives of water ingress is non-existent for a recumbent.
The crank drive lets you exploit the low drag of the recumbent better. People, please don't force me to spell it out.

 

[Nealh]

The Copenhagen all in one concept is ok if it doesn't go wrong.
The wheel it self is not exactly cheap, then there is all the excess weight circa 16+ lbs all at the rear. If the controller or battery develops a fault probably not very diyable to repair or to diagnose.

Trike wheel size if you plump for a 700c rear wheel then a normal hub will need to have a low rpm winding, whereas if you keep the small wheel you have a bit more choice and can use a faster wound hub motor with any choice of controller amp rating you like. Battery is the same use any size to suit your needs and being removable can help in lifting or manoeuvring about.
As Woosh has mentioned an easy fit option is a crank drive, up front it is out of the way. GSM with external controller and battery of your choice which you can position anywhere for low gravity and stability.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

700c and 20" need different motors because they need to spin at different speeds.

For a 20" wheel, there are not many decent UK kits. I would fit a Q100H for 7 gears or fewer or a Q100C for 8 speed or more. You need the 328 rpm version. Add an S06S controller and whatever PAS and throttle you want (need close-ups of the BB and handlebars to advise), then whatever 36v battery you want from wherever you want. generally, the more you pay, the better the battery.

All those things can be bought from BMSBattery.com.

700C cassette motor kits can be bought from Ebay at a very fair price from this seller when he lists them and there's another seller from Germany called YS-power something or other, who also lists them from a German warehouse. They're probably related as the kits are the same.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/elifeshop-2012/m.html?item=302237557385&epid=591719932&hash=item465ec32289:g:f50AAOSwC9VZhBAQ&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562

 

[emotor]

Hello, I'm a new ebike lover and also a student in London. I ride a lot in London and really got attracted by ebike recently. After follo...

Are those crowdfunding product as good as they show? Thank you.

Hi Brian
Sorry for my late input...
I have a little experince with ebikes. During the approx. last 8 years I have rebuild 3 normal bikes to ebikes. I have a bought fantastic good bosch ebike with centermotor. I have a Velomobile which I have fitted with a hubmotor driving the pedals for the hils.
Professionally i have worked with development of electronics for farmers for more than 35 years. I demands very robust electronic. When our company develop new products it normally starts with a mockup, then a prototype series with improvements and a 0-series with further improvements, if its a succes. Then series-1 with the last improvements and adjustments for production, which therreafter can be sold. The first prototypes and maybe even 0-series is not necessary good and error-free products.

When you buy a "crowdfunding product" you often get a prototype if You are lucky, which is not a finished errorfree product. When I call my Bosch ebike fantastic good, its because Bosch is a big, experiensed company, used to develop robust motors and eletronic for cars. So when the sell a ebike it is normally good quality. not a prototype.

(I did not experience errors with my Bosch-ebike, but the last years there have been a generel trend that even big companys is selling procucts with advanced software which can be updated via internet. These products is often ufinished and with errors. This is a pity.
I decided for the simple display/computer version for my Bosch-ebike, because the more advanced "Nyon" Bosch display/computer with GPS, was with errors the many first software-versions)
Happy ebiking ;-)

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Even Bosch doesn't get it all right. On the first version, there was water in the display and clacking motors. On the recent motors, there's the faulty seal behind the drive sprocket, which lets in water. I think they need to sort out their environmental testing procedures.

 

[emotor]

Yes "On the first version" sort of proves my assertion, that first model is not always the best. And if you chose a big wellknown experiensed developer/producer company, I think there is a better chance to get a good product ;-)

 

[flecc]

if you chose a big wellknown experiensed developer/producer company, I think there is a better chance to get a good product ;-)

The experience needs to be in the right field though. Mercedes (Daimler-Benz) have produced two pedelecs, but the less said about them the better!
.

 

[emotor]

Yes you are right ;-)

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Yes "On the first version" sort of proves my assertion, that first model is not always the best. And if you chose a big wellknown experiensed developer/producer company, I think there is a better chance to get a good product ;-)

Yes, but all the failing bearings on the Bosch motors are happening right now. That's not just the first production. It's a pretty major defect after 6 years of production.

I worked for years in quality control with German companies. You'd be surprised about how blinkered and unimaginative they can be when it comes to quality planning. The bigger the company the worse that is. Typically, they copy their existing procedures and test programmes from one product to the next without thinking about the risks from the actual changes in the product that they're introducing. That's why they got blitzed by the Japanese in the 80s/90s and why they'll get blitzed again by the Chinese.

 

[emotor]

Well that dosen't sound to good...
What do you think of buying crowdfunding bike-stuff ?

 

[Brian Koch]

Hi Brian
Sorry for my late input...
I have a little experince with ebikes. During the approx. last 8 years I have rebuild 3 normal bikes to ebikes. I have a bought fantastic good bosch ebike with centermotor. I have a Velomobile which I have fitted with a hubmotor driving the pedals for the hils.
Professionally i have worked with development of electronics for farmers for more than 35 years. I demands very robust electronic. When our company develop new products it normally starts with a mockup, then a prototype series with improvements and a 0-series with further improvements, if its a succes. Then series-1 with the last improvements and adjustments for production, which therreafter can be sold. The first prototypes and maybe even 0-series is not necessary good and error-free products.

When you buy a "crowdfunding product" you often get a prototype if You are lucky, which is not a finished errorfree product. When I call my Bosch ebike fantastic good, its because Bosch is a big, experiensed company, used to develop robust motors and eletronic for cars. So when the sell a ebike it is normally good quality. not a prototype.

(I did not experience errors with my Bosch-ebike, but the last years there have been a generel trend that even big companys is selling procucts with advanced software which can be updated via internet. These products is often ufinished and with errors. This is a pity.
I decided for the simple display/computer version for my Bosch-ebike, because the more advanced "Nyon" Bosch display/computer with GPS, was with errors the many first software-versions)
Happy ebiking ;-)

Wow, your Bosch mid-drive motor must be fantastic. Actually Bosch is too expensive for me, Bafang from China might be a good option I guess. The new crowdfunding ebike STROM CITY and Nireeka are quite cheap, maybe I will consider about it. Thank you for your advice my friend. Happy ebiking.

 

[Brian Koch]

Even Bosch doesn't get it all right. On the first version, there was water in the display and clacking motors. On the recent motors, there's the faulty seal behind the drive sprocket, which lets in water. I think they need to sort out their environmental testing procedures.

Do you have any idea about Bafang? I'm thinking about it.

 

[Danidl]

Ok nothing is perfect, but the standard Bosch Active with the small drive sprocket is pretty close... After 2000km, no problems of any sort with the drive, the electronics ,the display or the battery. Mind you it's road use only, I pick my times so that rain is infrequent, and none of the extreme vibration of rock jumping or dune buggying .
The problem though is that the engineering design departments get antsy and keep on wanting to provide reforms and improvements, if only to cut costs. .. there is an old design engineering maxim, if it works, it just hasn't got enough features. Or we can cut something down.., Whereas the QC boys just want to keep it same old same old, and the production lads agree.
The Nylon HMI panel, is an example of the former, and the big sprocket the latter .design engineering attitudes...

 

[Woosh]

Do you have any idea about Bafang? I'm thinking about it.

I can vouch for the Bafang MM G330.
Good economy, excellent torque. Can be paired with generic 48V batteries.
Much better VFM than all the Bosch kits.
Their new mid drive motors are even better.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Do you have any idea about Bafang? I'm thinking about it.

Yes, it's a lot more perfect than the Bosch with the small sprocket. Whoever came up with that idea should have been sacked. Maybe he/she was.

The Bafang has the massive advantage that you have access to the programming parameters. I've never heard of a single faulty one yet.

 

[Danidl]

Yes, it's a lot more perfect than the Bosch with the small sprocket. Whoever came up with that idea should have been sacked. Maybe he/she was.

The Bafang has the massive advantage that you have access to the programming parameters. I've never heard of a single faulty one yet.

The small sprokets has a number of functional advantages.. it seems impossible to lose the chain. Every other bike I have had has had the chain come off the front chain wheel at one time or another and certainly before 2000k . And the housing ensures that the oil does not get on my throusers. If I ever get around to wearing flowing dresses, then they also would be safe... I might not be, . It might lose a percent or so in efficiency, but it is also practical

 

[Deleted member 22539]

The small sprokets has a number of functional advantages.. it seems impossible to lose the chain. Every other bike I have had has had the chain come off the front chain wheel at one time or another and certainly before 2000k . And the housing ensures that the oil does not get on my throusers. If I ever get around to wearing flowing dresses, then they also would be safe... I might not be, . It might lose a percent or so in efficiency, but it is also practical

Ive never had a rock strike with it either compared to big sprockets

 

[Deleted member 4366]

What about all the guys who's motors jammed due to chain suck?

What about all the ones that damaged the seals because it jams all the grit in there?

What about all the ones with broken idler bearings on their FS bikes because they need the idler to hold the chain high instead of a straight line?

What about that horrible drag that you get due to the internal crank reduction gears?

I predict that all new Bosch motors will go back to the big chain-wheel, like they already have on the new Active Line.

 

[Deleted member 22539]

What about all the guys who's motors jammed due to chain suck?

What about all the ones that damaged the seals because it jams all the grit in there?

What about all the ones with broken idler bearings on their FS bikes because they need the idler to hold the chain high instead of a straight line?

What about that horrible drag that you get due to the internal crank reduction gears?

I predict that all new Bosch motors will go back to the big chain-wheel, like they already have on the new Active Line.

What about all the guys who have had no issues have you heard from them ?
As for drag I’ve Not noticed it in the last 4K or so
I Don’t have idler bearings either I only buy bikes that have been designed properly
You mentioned dirt in the seal , what difference do you think a bigger wheel will make only that it will be harder to clean properly ,and on that note the other problems I can’t comment on as I maintain my bike well
What I will say thou if your doing statistical analysis on these faults aren’t they going to be higher due to more Bosch motors being used at the moment especially off road which is definitely harder on equipment of any type .
It’s also like me being on a track day and moaning I’ve worn a set of tyres out in a day
Play hard and you get breakages on anything