Hard tail or full sus

[soundwave]

Yes, a huge recalcitrant pig. Some manufacturers try to make them sound easy to ride without power. I would take such statements with a pinch of salt. Try to not let yer battery run out.

you should try lift one over a fence i make mine levitate over them

 

[Eckythump]

Not that it is any of your business, but the reason that I took the FS eMTB to the Alps, is because I am taking delivery of a new hardtail at some stage over the next week. Had the new bike of been here, I would have taken that instead!

Why are you comparing the average eMTB rider with Nino Schurter? So tell me then, exactly how many years has Nino been riding an FS bike in XC? Also for your information, like other world class riders both male and female, he selects and rides between the two designs.


As you say, smooth conditions ideally suited for a hardtail, that would cause zero problems.

To the Op.

Plus points of hardtail ownership.

• Easier and quicker to clean and maintain.

• With no rear suspension, there is zero bushes/bearing to wear out, with no annual rebuild.

• In the case of one brand, no bolts that work loose and have to be replaced.

• No rear shock to have rebuilt every X amount of hours.

• Cheaper to maintain given the above points.

• They weigh less, and this point is certainly valid when a climb becomes too steep or wet to ride up, or you have to lift the bike over a gate etc.

• There is zero squat from the rear end, something that even locking the suspension on an FS bike doesn't give.

• The zero squat allows for faster sprinting up smooth steep inclines, and with total efficiency.

• You also know exactly what the rear wheel is doing, and going to do. A point that is invaluable for technical climbs.

Quite a harsh response for what was a legitimate question as to your choice of bike for your trip.

The photos you have shown are a perfect example to me a FS is at least comparable at climbing to a hard tail particularly the first & third shot.

I was not comparing the average rider to Nino Scherter, I was responding to a previous quote inferring all 'Top' XC riders ride hard tails. I apologise if you felt it was directed at you, I should have used a separate post & quote.

He has been riding FS exclusively for the last two years & selecting between the two dependent on track for a number of years before that (2011 IIRC). First & second place at the last Olympics in XC were also taken by FS bikes. I am not saying he wouldn't have won on a hard tail I raised it to show full suspension bikes are more than capable of doing the business.

The rest of your positive hard tail points are very true, valid and should be of practical use to the OP in helping with his decision.

The dismissal of FS on the basis of poor climbing ability & efficiency by member Retyred1 to me, is a misleading red herring probably based on technology of some time ago.

I am sure your FS bike with recent suspension design, shock & damping is not 'bouncy' or inefficient and is a pleasure to ride. That is not to say your hard tail is not also a pleasure to ride as well.

 

[soundwave]

eddie you keep going to the wrong mtn

 

[Trevormonty]

The high gearing on eBikes is more factor than weight for unassisted climbing. Typical eMtb would come with 38T chainring, compared to 28-32T on muggles bike. Try climbing steep hill in 3 or 4 gear with extra 10kg and you will have some idea of how it feels.

 

[Mal69]

The high gearing on eBikes is more factor than weight for unassisted climbing. Typical eMtb would come with 38T chainring, compared to 28-32T on muggles bike. Try climbing steep hill in 3 or 4 gear with extra 10kg and you will have some idea of how it feels.

Harry Potter ? I think my Oxygen is a muggles bike.

I find that even a small hill with the motor off is impossible, I guess for younger and fitter cyclists it would still be an effort although they would probably manage it better than me.

I tried a steep hill and it was like someone had glued the bike to the road or I was cycling through treacle, I put a great deal of effort into pedalling and got like 20 centimetres. E-bikes are heavy.

 

[Trevormonty]

Muggles term came from new member, I like better than unassisted. Ebike really are like magic bikes.

 

[Retyred1]

Quite a harsh response for what was a legitimate question as to your choice of bike for your trip.

The photos you have shown are a perfect example to me a FS is at least comparable at climbing to a hard tail particularly the first & third shot.

I was not comparing the average rider to Nino Scherter, I was responding to a previous quote inferring all 'Top' XC riders ride hard tails. I apologise if you felt it was directed at you, I should have used a separate post & quote.

He has been riding FS exclusively for the last two years & selecting between the two dependent on track for a number of years before that (2011 IIRC). First & second place at the last Olympics in XC were also taken by FS bikes. I am not saying he wouldn't have won on a hard tail I raised it to show full suspension bikes are more than capable of doing the business.

The rest of your positive hard tail points are very true, valid and should be of practical use to the OP in helping with his decision.

The dismissal of FS on the basis of poor climbing ability & efficiency by member Retyred1 to me, is a misleading red herring probably based on technology of some time ago.

I am sure your FS bike with recent suspension design, shock & damping is not 'bouncy' or inefficient and is a pleasure to ride. That is not to say your hard tail is not also a pleasure to ride as well.

This is an ebike forum so I know I shouldn't be dicussing non electric bike.

The argument on hardtail v full sus comes down to horses for courses. Anyone who spends time on a HT will understand the handling advantages, there is a 'directness' that comes from having a ridgid back end that no FS bike can ever replicate. The shorter chainstays and slacker geometry assist around tight corners and the fixed rear wheel position gives great feedback.

The latest frame geometry and weight advantages allowed by HT's are the reason most top riders are riding or returning to them.The FS bikes certainly have their advantage downhill where a little more weight can be a good thing. But uphill on that hard slog a good rider on a hardtail wins every time.

I hate going fast downhill, it truly scares the hell out of me, plus not having spare dollars to spend and as a most my rides being very hilly and technical a hardtail suits me just fine.

 

[stevieb]

although you may buy an emtb thinking that red routes etc are not going to be on the agenda this may change when you realise how much fun these bikes are.
if you already have experience of this type of riding on a non elect mtb then there is a strong possibilty of this.
the emtb is so much heavier and fs bikes will help to cushion the effect of this over rougher ground.
on a non emtb hardtail what may seem like a reasonably comfortable trail may feel quite harsh on a hardtail mtb.

 

[RobL]

Morning,
I recently bought a trek power fly 5 hard tail 19' for 2k and zero interest over two years from Evans after a helpful demo on a power fly 7 in woods on interesting and quite technically tricky tracks (for me at least) and really enjoyed it, even more than the haibike full seven I thought I wanted to buy. After purchasing, I tried it on the coastal tracks and byways in Norfolk and whilst enjoying it again tremendously (it's the new horse!) noticed it was quite bumpy crossing rutted field tracks at about 14 mph.

I was then able, on the useful Evans bike guarantee option, to upgrade to a 19' power fly 5 fs for an extra £500. I had actually tried this actual bike briefly in norwich but I didn't really get the hang of it and the options on seat and stem were not fully explored by me or the staff. This cured the bumps issue for my type of off-road riding (flat to gentle slopes but fairly quick riding) and allows me to explore off road on all the tracks and paths that are great fun round here.

I then noticed the fs in 19' is a centimetre shorter from saddle to handle bar and so fitted a knock shock adaptor ring (free from trek) and a bontrager 90mm stem with 10 degree angle (£5 from local bike store box of bits) which has sorted this shorter feel to the bike out. The bike rides perfectly well for my needs (possibly just a bit squidgier than the hard tail even with the fs fully locked out).

I also noticed that the big 29" rims on the original hard tail (which had been good for rolling along but a bit unwieldy from a stationery position) had reduced to 27.5" rims which seem a good compromise for my needs.

My wife can also ride the bike as well (smaller rims so less cumbersome) so I plan to sort out my road trek cytronex (which has a poor and always unreliable second nimh 4ah battery) after some suggestions from Flecc, and then we can ride on the road together.

So in answer to the first question on this thread, I have tried both types and think if you're spending 2-3k on a bike that Fs is overall the best design the and most sensible option for bumps!

 

[Trevormonty]

Thr FS definitely makes difference at extra speed especially on climbs.

 

[Steve A]

Love some of these comments, and don't really disagree with any of them. Everyone has an opinion, and most will be right for them. The answer is simple for you and that is you don't really need a full suss, same as you don't really need the latest carbon wheels.
Buy what you want and what your happy with. If you are questioning hardtail vs full suss, take weight out of the equation as these are e-bikes. I worry that you will buy a hardtail and keep thinking what if, as you are questioning now. I have ridden all sorts of bikes, styles of riding over the years and due to bad back issues settled on a full suss with speed dongle. It really is the jack of all trades for me and imho. It does not make me a better rider, i will always be average in that department, but i'm happy with my bike until maybe a new carbon / motor comes along.

Good luck!

 

[Steve A]

Quite a harsh response for what was a legitimate question as to your choice of bike for your trip.

The photos you have shown are a perfect example to me a FS is at least comparable at climbing to a hard tail particularly the first & third shot.

I was not comparing the average rider to Nino Scherter, I was responding to a previous quote inferring all 'Top' XC riders ride hard tails. I apologise if you felt it was directed at you, I should have used a separate post & quote.

He has been riding FS exclusively for the last two years & selecting between the two dependent on track for a number of years before that (2011 IIRC). First & second place at the last Olympics in XC were also taken by FS bikes. I am not saying he wouldn't have won on a hard tail I raised it to show full suspension bikes are more than capable of doing the business.

The rest of your positive hard tail points are very true, valid and should be of practical use to the OP in helping with his decision.

The dismissal of FS on the basis of poor climbing ability & efficiency by member Retyred1 to me, is a misleading red herring probably based on technology of some time ago.

I am sure your FS bike with recent suspension design, shock & damping is not 'bouncy' or inefficient and is a pleasure to ride. That is not to say your hard tail is not also a pleasure to ride as well.

A very good and measured response.

 

[chris_n]

I've never ridden a good FS bike, every one I have ridden up to now has failed to impress ( mainly hire bikes so maybe not the best comparison ). It has been a few years since I tried one but my normal riding is fine on the hardtail, when it gets a bit lumpy I just drop the seat and use my legs for suspension, keeping the back under control with the saddle between my thighs. Maybe a bit old school now but it's the way I learned to ride the rough stuff.

 

[EddiePJ]

Chris_n if you get the chance, try a plus size hardtail. For the terrain that you ride, you will be amazed by both the traction and the comfort.

 

[chris_n]

I think that is probably what I will end up with next, I already have 2.3 / 2.4 tyres but I'm sure a bit more volume will be perfect.

 

[EddiePJ]

Definitely the way to go.

When I was following the guy that I was with on that epic Swiss Alps climb, I was amazed by just how much traction and control that plus size gives. The tyres just seem to form a moulded footprint around what ever is below, with seemingly zero loss of traction.
All of that was confirmed when I rode his bike, and now that I also have plus size, I can't currently imagine going back to anything else. The Lycan might well have to go.
For my point of view, plus size also gives me a massive winter advantage, where by I can drop back down in tyre size to a 2.3* (I'd like much less) and have at least 27mm of chainstay clearance all round. No clogging, and no mess. A hardtail with that amount of clearance, makes for the perfect winter riding tool.

I don't know how feasible that it is with your bike, but the guy that I rode with, retro fitted his bike to plus size. It was very tight for chainstay clearance, but as he never rides in the wet or mud, it wasn't an issue to him.


*Maxis offer a WT range, that is designed for wide rimmed use.

 

[soundwave]

you can lower the psi in the tyres if you install the pro core kit thus giving more grip with 2.5 tyres and lower psi like say 15psi in the tyre

the pro core kit is £150 for 2 wheels tho.

 

[EddiePJ]

you can lower the psi in the tyres if you install the pro core kit thus giving more grip with 2.5 tyres and lower psi like say 15psi in the tyre

the pro core kit is £150 for 2 wheels tho.

That is good point. I had forgotten that he had Pro Core fitted.

It seems to much of a hassle for me, but if funds permitted and I was riding on rock all of the time, it could be worth while. For riding around where I am, it wouldn't be worth the expense.

 

[Gaz]

eddie you keep going to the wrong mtn

That quite frankly looks absolutely terrifying to me. I'm not sure if I'm feeling admiration, or pity (from an old gits perspective) for these poor people who aren't wired up correctly

I'd have been happy to get my back wheel over the start line

Gaz

 

[Bertyboy]

Not sure weather to buy a hard tail bike or full sus. I don't want to part with £2000 on a good hard tail only to regret it a few months later. I have a "normal" hard tail and full sus and I much prefer the full sus for ironing out the rough bits. I probably won't be doing any MTB red or black trails with my ebike, as I would be too wary of crashing off such an expensive bike, as I have done in the past. I will mainly be using the ebike to help with the hills, but still want to enjoy the rough stuff. Any thoughts.

Hardtail with 3" plus tyres? Cheaper, less weight to lift onto a bike rack, fewer moving parts to go wrong/ maintain, more grip, more stability IMHO