Haibike Xduro Trekking SL 2013 Review

[o00scorpion00o]

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On steep off road stuff, the front end lifts off the ground

The bike certainly eats the battery though, which is the complete opposite of the Bosch motor. Even in turbo mode it seems to just go on and on.
You haven't been the first to mention cadence, and this is something that I'll have to investigate further.
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This leads me to believe the BH is putting out a lot more power than the Bosch, I have never experienced the Bosch lifting the front wheel no matter how steep, but knowing Bosch, they could have measures in place to stop this ? This can also happen if you carry a lot of weight on the rack, battery, panniers etc.

Also when you say "eating battery" this also leads me to believe it's running a fair bit more power than the Bosch.

On the website it says 350 watts, but it could be putting out a lot more peak power.

Also hubs are not so efficient climbing steep hills as they usually need to spin fast to be more efficient this is where the chain drive works best, when the motor starts to bog down just drop a few gears and off you go, with a hub you can't do this and as it slows and becomes more un-efficient the more the power turns to heat.

I would be careful if climbing a lot of very steep hills with a small hub, keep an eye on the temps, if it's a geared hub and it's hot on the outside then it's roasting on the inside.

A direct drive hub can dissipate heat better.

A conway E-rider Extreme would be a really cool bike to test, I bet it would eat a 23% grade.

But back to cadence, yes you do have to pedal hard and fast for the Bosch to apply full power, this isn't a weakness of the motor but rather a clever way of Bosch making you get some exercise and this is why I like it so much because it matches my cadence brilliantly and I like to put in effort, but I usually only use the motor when I need to. When I'm not in the pedal hard mood then I switch to turbo for short non exercise trips and this is where the DSram DD3 hum really shines.

I would love to try a NuVinci auto hub but I bet it is far from pedal efficient.

 

[EddiePJ]

Eddie,

Do you know if your bike has the max 200 per cent assist hub gear Bosch motor or the max 250 per cent assist derailleur gear one?

Just looked, and the side of the motor has a plate stating 250% assist.

Ref the Conway E-Rider. That has long been my favourite E-MTB. If only my pockets were deep enough.

Whatever my opinion of the Bosch motor, it still certainly isn't a slouch. The below was last week, and was a 'go for it' ride. The return trip which has a slower average speed, also took in approx. 4 miles of road stone cycle track.

This has been an interesting thread to read through.





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[o00scorpion00o]

Ref the Conway E-Rider. That has long been my favourite E-MTB. If only my pockets were deep enough.

The Conway looks great but it's higher maintenance, they should have used belts instead of chains for the reduction, they can stretch and it is a bit noisy.

It's too expensive, it could do with being cheaper but all these bikes are over priced, most people just won't buy them.

Whatever my opinion of the Bosch motor, it still certainly isn't a slouch.

Do you still have the Bosch ? do you have the Sram Dual drive ? if so then try it on the hills when you get a chance and try select a different gear, I find a higher cadence with harder force on the pedals gives max power, the 2013's have the power meter and you can clearly see the output, when you might think it's outputting full power it isn't and may only be outputting half, and that's usually when I'm pedalling slower in a higher gear, drop the gears pedal harder and you get full power.

I've had 5wh through hubs and 10kw peak, amazing fun up to 40 mph, My favourite motor was the MAC 8T, great power at 2-3kw and the ability to keep the 3 chain rings it felt just like a normal bike. But the highest peaks 20% + would be too much for an 8T a 12T would have been more suitable. The throttle was nice when I couldn't be arsed pedalling, a throttle is never as smooth as a torque sensor, this is what attracted me to the Bosch, it's utter smoothness and it's proven to take me up anything I can find and still be cool at the top without draining the battery, for me who really likes to pedal, the hill climbing efficiency means most to me.