Haibike v Kalkhoff v Heinzmann?

[zbiggy]

Hi, totally new to all this and looking for advice. To be greener and fitter have just sold old convertible for £2k which is my rough budget. Tried a Cytronex which was great for stealth but no good for trails / unable to de-restrict plus range v limited, battery not secure on the frame so could end up carrying two round town.

Live in hillier parts of SW so hill climbing ability important. Tried Haibike Sduro Hard7 which I liked and close to ordering but quieter would be better so wondered how Kalkhoff's Impulse II crank drive compared particularly if with belt drive. Have no experience of hub drive but Electric Goat conversions look good and slight preference to support a local business rather than a corporation. How would the Heinzmann Direct drive compare for noise, power, hills etc? Had initial preference for front hub motorto accommodate hub gears (like the minimal maintainance aspect) but just about persuaded by Steve at EG that rear is better. Kalkhoff's generally ~3kg heavier which is a slight issue as my shed is at top of very steep garden so weight especially with no walk-assist / throttle capability.

Ability to de-restrict for offroad is important, not sure for Kalkhoff but have open query with Badass re their dongle compatability with Impulse II / Shift Assist.

Apologies in advance for any naivete in above - don't know yet what I don't know.

cheers

Steve

 

[One_Box]

I have a Kalkoff Tasman which has the Impulse 2 motor. It does have walk assist. I have no idea whether it can be de-restricted however. It is not designed for off-road use.

I also have an Ezee Sprint Primo which has a powerful front hub motor with hub gears so low maintenance.

Either bike can deal with the hills in South Wales.

I cannot comment on the other bikes but you may like to furnish further details e.g. your weight, what range you expect from the bike, whether you are prepared to put in much effort yourself ( essential to get the best out of the Kalkoff ) general level of fitness etc.

I'm sure some of the experts on the forum will be pleased to help.

Good luck !

 

[JohnCade]

Kalkhoffs can have their cut off changed by using the dealer diagnostic device which they will lend you to update software. It’s just a matter of inputing a smaller wheel size. They all cut out at a bit over 17mph anyway and not all bikes use the 10% tolerance in the law. Most seem to cut out bang on 15.5mph. Dongles are also available for it.

As to the weight, all Kalkhoffs are quoted as the same which is a nonsense of course since some have hub gears and frame locks and some don’t. They also claim that the batteries all weigh the same which must also be nonsense since some have almost twice the capacity so must have more cells. Most e bikes weigh much the same depending on equipment fitted. Some manufactures are just more truthful about the weight than others.

 

[RobF]

Noise varies from motor to motor of the same type, so there will always be an element of chance there.

The bike you buy may be quieter than the demo model, noisier, or the same.

A belt drive will have no discernible impact on noise, and there are many reasons why you don't want one.

The Haibike you tried is a good bike and you could go on a long journey of research and find nothing you like better.

Be wary of drowning in a sea of information and opinion.

It's mid April and you are still buying a bicycle, so you need to get sorted sooner rather than later or you will miss a large part of the season.

 

[Cyclezee]

Hi Steve,

Welcome to the forum.

The Heinzmann direct drive system is super silent and available as a complete bike or retro fit kit to a non powered bike be it front or rear motor.

I don't know where you are located but we demonstrators and new models.
If you can get to Milton Keynes you welcome to test ride them.

http://www.cyclezee.com/heinzmann-e-bikes--pedelecs.html

 

[zbiggy]

One Box - thanks for the walk-assist info - didn't realise that so very useful and I'll also check out the Ezee Sprint though equally cognisant of RobF's excellent point about paralysis by analysis which I'm definitely getting and was main reason for this plea for help
Thanks JohnCade also for common sense advice on weight - is helping me get over it as a potential issue.
Cyclezee - thanks for info. I'll check out your range.
cheers
Steve

 

[RobF]

paralysis by analysis

Good phrase.

I shall probably nick it for use in future, not that I will give you any credit of course.

Looking where to spend your money is all part of the fun.

You are aware of over analysing it, so that should prevent you wasting too much time.

 

[Cyclezee]

One Box - thanks for the walk-assist info - didn't realise that so very useful and I'll also check out the Ezee Sprint though equally cognisant of RobF's excellent point about paralysis by analysis which I'm definitely getting and was main reason for this plea for help
Thanks JohnCade also for common sense advice on weight - is helping me get over it as a potential issue.
Cyclezee - thanks for info. I'll check out your range.
cheers
Steve

Hi Steve,

Just to let you know we are also the UK supplier of eZee bikes and conversion kits http://www.cyclezee.com/ezee-e-bikes--pedelecs.html

BTW, Heinzmann have a walk assist mode as does Ansmann which we also stock.
With eZee bikes you can also have walk assist by setting it in EU mode whereby the throttle only assists to 6 Km/h.

 

[Jonah]

Where about in the SW are you, anywhere near us in North Devon?

 

[zbiggy]

Where about in the SW are you, anywhere near us in North Devon?

Hi Jonah, split my time between Wilts / N.Dorset and South Hams, Devon.
That's a long list of bikes you have - any advice?

Responding to earlier query, I'm nearly 15st was 13.5st 2 years ago so looking to put some effort in to get back to that - about 5'10'' high. Range required about 40 miles ...

 

[zbiggy]

Separate question on front v rear hubs and notwithstanding Steve (EG) advice that rear best esp for off -road, I'm drawn to front wheel as most of riding is on road and like the idea of hub gears. Question is effect on front forks when 250w unrestricted for off road - any risk of damage / need for reinforcement?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

My advice would be to stick with a rear motor. Hub gears don't really give any advantage. Most bikes have derailleur gears for a reason.

 

[zbiggy]

I have a Kalkoff Tasman which has the Impulse 2 motor. It does have walk assist. I have no idea whether it can be de-restricted however. It is not designed for off-road use.

I also have an Ezee Sprint Primo which has a powerful front hub motor with hub gears so low maintenance.

Either bike can deal with the hills in South Wales.

I cannot comment on the other bikes but you may like to furnish further details e.g. your weight, what range you expect from the bike, whether you are prepared to put in much effort yourself ( essential to get the best out of the Kalkoff ) general level of fitness etc.

I'm sure some of the experts on the forum will be pleased to help.

Good luck !

Hi One_Box, I tested some Kalkhoffs in Bristol yesterday and was impressed. I notice you have a Tasman and and Ezee Sprint and wondered whether you could comment on your experience of the merits of each with regard to each other. I forgot to mention that my gf wants to come along too so am in the market for two bikes.

Thanks

Steve

 

[One_Box]

Not an easy task as both bikes are so different. My Tasman Impulse 8 HS LS with 17Ah battery is a premium product at a premium price whereas my Ezee Sprint Primo ( 11Ah battery ) cost less than half. Having said that the Ezee is extremely good value and is certainly rugged. Both bikes have Shimano hub gears, the Tasman 8 speed and the Sprint Primo 3 speed ( There is a 8 speed hub version of the Ezee Sprint available ). The principal difference is the way the bikes lay down their power. As you know the Tasman has a crank drive motor which monitors the torque generated by the rider, the cadence and speed and then adds its own power based on user settings of Off, Eco, Speed or Power. If you only pedal lightly the motor will respond in a similar fashion and there is no independent throttle.The Ezee has 6 power levels including off which work up to specific speeds and has an independent throttle. The tuning of the Ezee power delivery leads to a very smooth ride and I have never experienced hunting at any time. Very occasionally I have experienced hunting with the Kalkoff. My experience leads me to believe the Ezee would suit someone returning to cycling whereas the Kalkoff because of its power delivery, may suit regular cyclists ( I own 4 conventional cycles as well as 2 electric ). The Kalkoff also feels and handles much more like a conventional cycle notwithstanding its weight. The Ezee has been entirely reliable since I purchased it last September having been used over the winter, and has required no maintenance other than chain adjusting and lubing. I have only owned my Kalkoff for 3 weeks and as supplied was hopelessly under-geared even for hilly South Wales. I have changed the rear sprocket from a 21T to a 19T and removed a link from the chain which has improved things no end. I hope this has given you a flavour of the bikes but if you have a specific query please come back to me. BTW my Ezee is for sale should you be interested although for a 40 mile range with your build a 15Ah battery would probably suit better.

 

[zbiggy]

Thanks One_Box - really appreciate the detailed response. Have bought a Kalkhoff, collect Weds, as best all-rounder and so I can get going and stop dithering ... or rather focus my dithering on what 2nd bike to get for me when gf wants to come along on the K. So something with offroad potential and more fun was pointing me towards Haibike but now I'm wondering whether hub motor rather than another crank (quieter?) would be better choice. Kudos range look very interesting - I like the bottle battery for increased stealth but same question arises as earlier Cytronex comments:-

Is the bottle- battery securely locked on the frame or would I have to take with me if leaving the bike somewhere? Important as would probably want to have spare battery with me to give required range and don't really want to be carrying two.

Any info on Kudos or other bottle battery, hub driven mtb bikes welcome

thanks

Steve

 

[Cyclezee]

Looking for a silent electric MTB, they don't come any quieter than the Heinzmann Atlas with direct drive with torque sensor.

 

[zbiggy]

Thanks this is definitely in the mix. Just not sure about the battery may prefer the stealth of a bottle battery

 

[zbiggy]

Cyclezee,
What's the availability of this bike or lead time and also can it be de-restricted for off road use
Thanks Steve

 

[zbiggy]

Kudos experts same question i.e. can they be de-restricted
Thanks Steve

 

[One_Box]

Thanks One_Box - really appreciate the detailed response. Have bought a Kalkhoff, collect Weds, as best all-rounder and so I can get going and stop dithering ... or rather focus my dithering on what 2nd bike to get for me when gf wants to come along on the K. So something with offroad potential and more fun was pointing me towards Haibike but now I'm wondering whether hub motor rather than another crank (quieter?) would be better choice. Kudos range look very interesting - I like the bottle battery for increased stealth but same question arises as earlier Cytronex comments:-

Is the bottle- battery securely locked on the frame or would I have to take with me if leaving the bike somewhere? Important as would probably want to have spare battery with me to give required range and don't really want to be carrying two.

Any info on Kudos or other bottle battery, hub driven mtb bikes welcome

thanks

Steve

Which Kalkoff did you buy ?
I'm sure you will enjoy it !