Haibike sDuro HardSeven SL 2015 Yamaha (7 Month 1600 Miles)

[georgehenry]

Hi Daveh, you are of course correct, the torque sensor mechanisms relay how much power is added to your own effort dependent on how hard you are pushing down on the pedal and what level of assistance you are in and the support can be provided by either a crank or hub motor.

I have found that the Yamaha system seems to respond instantaneously (0 Cadence system) and this I love particularly off road. The Bosch system I rode back in March 2015 seemed to me a little slower at that time.

 

[chris_n]

Only problem with the zero cadence system is pulling away on steep hills when the surface is loose. (Note to self must buy dropper post)

 

[EddiePJ]

Only problem with the zero cadence system is pulling away on steep hills when the surface is loose. (Note to self must buy dropper post)

Zero cadence would be fine, if the power kicked in from a progressive crawl and increased over say a couple of pedal strokes. In an ideal world all eMTB's would do this, and I have no idea why this isn't a built in design feature.

Like you, I'd find zero cadence to be a complete pain and work against setting off from a stand still in an off road situation. That not only including steep loose surface, but slippery conditions as well.

 

[georgehenry]

I just like being able to immediately adjust the power to the back wheel with your legs, if it starts to spin you can back off and then gradually on again or off again and each change in pressure has an immediate effect on the power delivery to the back wheel with no delay at all, splendid.

 

[chris_n]

I just like being able to immediately adjust the power to the back wheel with your legs, if it starts to spin you can back off and then gradually on again or off again and each change in pressure has an immediate effect on the power delivery to the back wheel with no delay at all, splendid.

Yes fair enough once you are moving, but if you have to stop where traction is poor then starting again is a nightmare. Many times over the summer I have found myself having to lower the seat to start off, bottom gear even with my 2x chainring set up is just too high to pull away without power where I have been riding. YMMV

 

[EddiePJ]

I can mirror those words exactly, the only difference being the choice of bike brand and motor.

On some occasions both here in the UK and in Switzerland, it has taken several attempts to pull away whilst using assist.

 

[georgehenry]

I am heavy (100kg+), carry loaded panniers and this might help to put the power down without the wheel slipping as much.

I use the bike to get to work and back rather than leisure and have got to know my various routes really well through repetition.

There is a lot sand in Surrey that means the routes stay dryer for longer and I can choose to mostly avoid the worst of the mud in winter rather than seek it out like Eddie.

However my own personal experience has been that the system works really well.

 

[chris_n]

I think my Alpine and Eddie's riding may well be on a different level entirely, you wouldn't want panniers where we go! Hence the Your milage may vary.

 

[soundwave]

mine eats 1 bar every five miles

 

[georgehenry]

Probably true, although my routes have some great single track sections including loose steep leaf mould bomb hole drop off down hill bits with a downed tree trunk to negotiate as you exit built up with soil on the left to create a ramp that you can clear at just the right speed to negotiate the exposed route intrusions on the track where you land off camber, sand stone washed out drop off shelf's, other downed small tree trunks to lift the front wheel over and then lean forward to allow the rear to follow etc and the panniers and rack do make a racket but it puts a smile on your face at work.

 

[georgehenry]

Miles now 4984



I am just about to hit 5000 miles. The rear cassette is now at 1044 miles after being replaced on the 28th of June 16. I did get a little hint of top gear wear for the first time, on my Monday night return trip from work so it may be getting close to time to change it, but it was fine last night. The tracks I use are generally very dry at the moment but as soon as some proper wet winter weather arrives I am sure the cassette and chain will need a change, although as long as they keep working glitch free I will carry on.




I do look after the cassette by changing gear carefully and using a lot of eco in the 12 tooth top gear and changing down to the 14 tooth gear 8 for faster but still uphill bits where I am pounding away on the pedals as hard as I can to try and maintain 20mph rather than upping the power to maintain a higher 22/23 mph.



If I used more power in the 12 tooth top gear and/or was less sympathetic when changing gear I am sure it would still start to play up quite quickly.



I am getting a little rhythmic noise that seems to be associated with my pedalling cadence although it is a classic intermittent hard to diagnose where it is coming from sort of noise. It sounds like it is coming from the motor area but it could be from the transmission rather than the motor. There is no play that I can detect in the bottom bracket area and the motor performs just as it always has. My bike shop suggested that the engine mounting bolts could be the source and need to be removed, re-greased and torqued back up, and I will get that done in due course. But it is not effecting how the bike performs and it varies from not being there at all to a quiet sound in the background to a more noticeable and always rhythmic noise in time with my pedaling. I swapped the pedals over to check it was not them. It can also be heard when pedaling with the motor off.



After going through a long phase of using eco and off on my journey to and from work I have started using standard again on the steeper hills on the way home. This is really only for one long hill and another steeper but shorter hill. The 10 mile journey now uses 35% of the battery rather than the 28%/30% using only eco, but it is nice to have the extra push on the steep hills. The battery continues to perform pretty much as it has from new prior to the colder winter months to come.



My re-chargeable Moon lights also continue to work splendidly, and I am hopeful that my new sturdier rear rack will stand the test of hard miles and time.



I have managed to compromise the attaching clips on one of my Ortleib Classic panniers that started annoyingly unlatching on the bumpy, jumpy off road sections and I have simply added a bit of boot lace to tie on each clip of this pannier on the off road route and this fantastic adaption has done the trick and I am sure would please the German engineers who designed the clips. I have had these panniers since 2011 and love them for their ease of use and complete water proof ness.



As before riding to work and back is still as brilliant now as it was when I began and the bike continues to work brilliantly and shrug off the continued and regular abuse of a 20 plus mile off/on road commute and allow me to get lots of exercise and enjoy the fantastic countryside I ride through.

 

[georgehenry]

Well I treated my bike to a new cassette, chain and rear mech today. The rear mech had been bent but working for a while but I thought it was time for a new one to aid crisp and reliable gear selection.

For the record the previous cassette and chain had lasted 1246 miles since the 28th of June 16. I will keep a record of how I get on with the new ones but they will have a hard life entering service during the mud, rain and salt of the Winter months ahead, but time will tell.

 

[Biscitt]

@georeghenry Very interesting reading. I also have a Haibike Hardseven Sduro and although it has only covered just over 700 miles I am having lots of trouble with the highest gear. It keeps slipping, not a problem with the indexing as I have checked that. Seems a low mileage to be worn out and the other gears have been fine but maybe it is time to change them.

Are the gear cassettes you are using standard or designed for ebikes? I would be interested in an overview bringing together all of your experiences with different cassettes as I have no idea what to look for and would likely buy the same again.

I also use my bike for commuting along a mixture of road, canal towpaths and bike path. The other problem I have at the moment is with punctures the canal towpaths appear to be carpeted with thorns at the moment I have had 4 punctures in a couple of days. I'm looking at going tubeless but hadn't considered this slime in tubes. Is that something easy enough to do?

 

[RobF]

There seems to be general problem with top gear slipping on Yamaha powered Haibikes.

I wonder if it's caused by the chain line.

Not much you can do about that, as it's governed by the frame and the relative - and fixed - position of the front and rear rings.

Trying to get away with a using more teeth on top gear at the back might help.

One way would be to fit a bigger ring at the front, you might then be able to go fast enough using the smallest but one sprocket at the back.

That would also improve the chain line.

 

[IR772]

Are you using maximum assistance all the time ?

When you do it puts a lot of strain on the gears and chain

Try it in ECO for a while and see if you get the same, I think that will cure it

I read that most Yamaha riders use the cheapest gear replacements when they do replace them

As the Yamaha is so powerful with great power comes great responsibility.

This tells you a lot

https://www.e-bikeshop.co.uk/blog/post/review-haibike-hardseven-sl-2015/

 

[IR772]

Forgot!

Punctures, get a bottle of tube sealant and squirt it in and job done. If you want to go further buy a tyre with a protection layer in.

Like
https://www.schwalbe.com/gb/tour-reader/marathon-plus-mtb.html

 

[RobF]

I've ridden a Yamaha bike and reckon it has similar grunt to my Bosch bikes.

The claims by the makers support this view.

The combined power of a not particularly fit rider and the power of the motor is what the rear sprocket is being asked to handle.

That combined power is no more than that of a fit rider, and a lot less than that of a competitive rider.

None of those guys have problems with chains jumping, even when they stamp on the pedals.

Thus the rear sprockets on Biscitt's - or any Yamaha bike - should work without jumping.

They don't, so there's a problem somewhere, but it's nothing to do with the power of the motor.

Unless you buy what we might call the 'Kalkhoff argument', which I don't.

 

[IR772]

If you rode a Yamaha bike in Eco or Eco+ the gear change is smooth as the power is reduced it is like riding a pedal bike.

The Bosch bikes have all the delayed start and gear changing software built in that you pay a premium for and the Kalkhoff's too.

The cheaper Yamaha is just grunt, so you need to learn to ease off on the gear changes on High, if you do not then it will crash away.

They are cheaper bikes but you need to learn how to ride them.

I have done over 800 miles and to me mine feels like new, but now I use Eco all the time.

I started with High, then moved to Standard, now I have gone down a League. Unless I come to a steep hill or I see other cyclists then it's straight back to High!

You pay you money and take your choice.

Bosch bikes do not need chain and gears replacing ?

I think I have read on here that they do, and they have the software ?

 

[IR772]

If you read the first two posts of this review it tell you all you need to know.

 

[RobF]

The first two posts tell us the OP got through a cassette in 1,600 miles.

Very low mileage, but the use is relatively harsh.

Biscitt has the same problem after 700 miles of nothing harsher than cycle path use.

That simply should not happen.

Telling him the answer is to use eco is equivalent to the Kalkhoff argument - use the motor only on low power and it won't break.

Fine if the owner accepts it, but he shouldn't have to.

No problem on my Bosch derailer bike after thousands of miles, and the motor pre-dates any clever software.

Changing with some mechanical empathy is a reasonable expectation, but a properly set up derailer system shouldn't jump after 700 miles even with some clunky changes.

Biscitt has checked indexing, so something else is not right.

A design fault with the chain line would account for the accelerated wear/slipping on both bikes.

It could be something else, but I'm struggling to think what that might be.