Haibike Sduro Hardseven Battery Consumption

[soundwave]

i can do it but only short bursts as hit the dongle speed limit just at 35mph.

with a 20t you can hit 40 but again only for seconds at a time.

 

[Gubbins]

i can do it but only short bursts as hit the dongle speed limit just at 35mph.

with a 20t you can hit 40 but again only for seconds at a time.

Do you actually know how fsst you are spinning or are you guessing?

 

[soundwave]

i know because i hit the rpm limit of the motor as it drops off a cliff at 120. ;(

 

[anotherkiwi]

Is flattening battery in 90 mins or so any more detrimental than 3 hours or so ? I cant see any reason why, after all the maximum draw is unaffected, you can just do it longer/ more often...if you are fit enough.
Infact if you picked a very hard route ( ie a long hill which kept your max aided speed under 15.5 mph you could run down battery just as quickly...I,d guess the item most likely to cry enough is the motor...if its nominally rated to handle 250w but by usage or dongle we can make it sustain at least 400 then surely we are over loading motor but not battery ???

Motors have two weak points:

- Heat which can melt the nylon gears and affect the magnets or in extreme cases the insulation on the windings
- Bearings

Hot rodding a hub motor:

"With the steel planetary gears and ATF lubrication, the ‘250W’ Bafang SWXH was able to survive astonishing power levels. After the upgrade, the 15s (54V) battery and 35A controller didn’t pose any problems for the little hub motor anymore. It merely shrugged at dumping 2kW bursts into the little bugger and running for prolonged periods at 1kW continuous. In a torture test, I ran it with a 22s battery at 90V, where it propelled my trike to 68km/h on the flat at 2kW continuous and even that couldn’t kill it."

Heat in batteries on the other hand can cause fire or explosion

 

[Zlatan]

Motors have two weak points:

- Heat which can melt the nylon gears and affect the magnets or in extreme cases the insulation on the windings
- Bearings

Hot rodding a hub motor:

"With the steel planetary gears and ATF lubrication, the ‘250W’ Bafang SWXH was able to survive astonishing power levels. After the upgrade, the 15s (54V) battery and 35A controller didn’t pose any problems for the little hub motor anymore. It merely shrugged at dumping 2kW bursts into the little bugger and running for prolonged periods at 1kW continuous. In a torture test, I ran it with a 22s battery at 90V, where it propelled my trike to 68km/h on the flat at 2kW continuous and even that couldn’t kill it."

Heat in batteries on the other hand can cause fire or explosion

But my motor is peaking at most 500w (???) and neither it or battery are even warm after 20 mins hard slogg uphill...infact I,d hazard a guess battery is cooler than ideal this time of year...I believe Haibike do a neoprene cover for winter use...but £40 for an arm out of a wetsuit with a bit of Velcro stuck on it seems a bit expensive...

 

[georgehenry]

Now Zlatan there could be another way to approach your route with the dongle attached.

The fastest time with the most battery left.

With practice you might be able to get the perfect combination of very close to your fastest time and also close to having 37% of your battery left.

The beauty of a dongle if you are fit is to use less power but because it does not cut out at any given speed you can maintain higher speeds with a lower power setting if you are prepared to add plenty of power yourself.

Now of course you will go slower but you might surprise yourself how little slower that is.

It takes a while to learn the gradients on a route well enough to know the perfect combination of your effort and how much power from the motor produces the best combination of high average speed and most battery left at the end.

Many weeks of homework perhaps.

 

[soundwave]

the most distance using all modes for a ride was 47 miles plus 4 pubs 6 pints and 4 warheads with my 500w batt

 

[georgehenry]

For an old dinosaur like me you might have to explain the term "warhead". If I were to guess I might pontificate that you might be referring to what in the old days was called a spliff.

 

[Zlatan]

Now Zlatan there could be another way to approach your route with the dongle attached.

The fastest time with the most battery left.

With practice you might be able to get the perfect combination of very close to your fastest time and also close to having 37% of your battery left.

The beauty of a dongle if you are fit is to use less power but because it does not cut out at any given speed you can maintain higher speeds with a lower power setting if you are prepared to add plenty of power yourself.

Now of course you will go slower but you might surprise yourself how little slower that is.

It takes a while to learn the gradients on a route well enough to know the perfect combination of your effort and how much power from the motor produces the best combination of high average speed and most battery left at the end.

Many weeks of homework perhaps.

That's a great idea...will give it a go and post...been around this morning...stunning..but very cold.....so very slow ...snake pass closed..snow... If I had one of Sounds warheads I,d still be there..

 

[georgehenry]

Just to put down a meaningless marker I timed my undulating B road 10 mile return from work this evening carrying a pair of Ortleib panniers weighing together circa 10kg.

No stop watch I just noted the time when the level crossing gates raised to allow my wheels to start turning and checked again when my wheels stopped turning in my driveway.

I managed 29 minutes for the 10 miles and used 35% of my battery.

By sheer good fortune the wind seemed to mostly favourable which does not happen often and does help.

 

[Gubbins]

That's an average of 20 mph. I am surprised you used any battery at all.

 

[anotherkiwi]

I did my 13 km station run on the un-powered trike at an average speed of 15 km/h this week. I average 26 km/h on the pedelec. I wanted a time so that I can compare with when I put the motor on.

 

[georgehenry]

That's an average of 20 mph. I am surprised you used any battery at all.

I did say meaningless due to all those variables of weather, gradient, weight, age, fitness, motivation, et al.

This is my regular commute so I know the gradients and power levels that work best for me and try to aim for up to a 20 mph average with up to 40% battery consumption on the going home road route, but mostly I just enjoy the ride without ever checking the time.

I use a combination of eco for level slightly down slightly up gradients, standard for steeper uphill bits and off for steeper downhill bits.

I suppose I am trying to make an observation about average speed and battery consumption on a de-restricted bike and giving Zlatan another way of riding his bike with a dongle.

A lot of people say a de-restricted bike will kill your battery/use more battery and I have found that using a lower power level that does not cut out at any given speed allows me to achieve a high average speed (for me!), carry stuff and manage my battery consumption. You have to be prepared to put more effort in yourself but that was one of the main reasons I started commuting to work on the bike in the first place.

My battery is two years and 10 months old, seems to be working as it did from new (Obviously it must be degrading) and I have covered 7950 miles.

 

[Zlatan]

I did say meaningless due to all those variables of weather, gradient, weight, age, fitness, motivation, et al.

This is my regular commute so I know the gradients and power levels that work best for me and try to aim for up to a 20 mph average with up to 40% battery consumption on the going home road route, but mostly I just enjoy the ride without ever checking the time.

I use a combination of eco for level slightly down slightly up gradients, standard for steeper uphill bits and off for steeper downhill bits.

I suppose I am trying to make an observation about average speed and battery consumption on a de-restricted bike and giving Zlatan another way of riding his bike with a dongle.

A lot of people say a de-restricted bike will kill your battery/use more battery and I have found that using a lower power level that does not cut out at any given speed allows me to achieve a high average speed (for me!), carry stuff and manage my battery consumption. You have to be prepared to put more effort in yourself but that was one of the main reasons I started commuting to work on the bike in the first place.

My battery is two years and 10 months old, seems to be working as it did from new (Obviously it must be degrading) and I have covered 7950 miles.

Think that's a great way to go...One of my best eco runs was using high setting but keeping bike at exactly 25kmh...when it dropped used power to get back but then it cuts out...Did a 15 mile ride on about 25%...but was all road..cant remember time but average would have been 15/16 mph...This method not feasible off road tho...

 

[Gubbins]

Think that's a great way to go...One of my best eco runs was using high setting but keeping bike at exactly 25kmh...when it dropped used power to get back but then it cuts out...Did a 15 mile ride on about 25%...but was all road..cant remember time but average would have been 15/16 mph...This method not feasible off road tho...

I hadnt realised bike was derestricred... I use your method on my road bike and it will top 60 miles with ease averaging 15 to 16 mph.

 

[Zlatan]

I hadnt realised bike was derestricred... I use your method on my road bike and it will top 60 miles with ease averaging 15 to 16 mph.

I use dongle every now and again...trying to figure a way of retaining it and keeping range up...your suggestion seems on right lines..
To be honest most enjoyable ride I,ve had is with dongle, in high and going as quick as poss..not quite cricket tho...and was on a day when no walkers were on tracks (well not many)...was throwing it down...but averaged 18 mph...off road..

 

[Gubbins]

I use dongle every now and again...trying to figure a way of retaining it and keeping range up...your suggestion seems on right lines..
To be honest most enjoyable ride I,ve had is with dongle, in high and going as quick as poss..not quite cricket tho...and was on a day when no walkers were on tracks (well not many)...was throwing it down...but averaged 18 mph...off road..

The older Yamaha motor lends itself quite well do deristriction. The problem is that by doubling the cut off you are using power all the time with a potential assisted top speed of around 30mph (15.5 x 2) which IMO is dangerous to say the least, but, by exploiting the Yams Cadence/Power ceiling you can have the assistance cut out at almost any speed.

 

[georgehenry]

To be honest I am not interested in going as fast as possible and spend the majority of my time in eco and only use standard to climb steeper hills at a faster pace.

However the fact that the motor does not cut out means that I don't hit that wall on the road and just find my natural cruising speed around 20mph + or minus a mile an hour or so.

So if a new speed cut of of 35 kph came along that would suit me down to the ground.

Pushing it hard in eco with perhaps a bit of gradient in my favour I top out with my gearing at a maximum of 25 mph but only ever for short distances.

On the flat in favorable conditions I might hold a maximum of 22 mph plus or minus a mile an hour. Very comparable with a roadie.

I have up geared my bike but also use a reasonable wide ratio cassette to give me a low enough bottom gear for my off road routes and an 8th gear that can hold 20 mph on the road in eco up gentle gradients with me pushing hard and a top gear that goes from 21 mph to 23 on the flat in eco with me pushing and tops out at 26 mph downhil.

As has been stated the yamaha PW motor is cadence limited with the power diminishing as you spin faster.

With the motor off and me spinning fast in 9th down my steepest short hill I top out at 37mph briefly.