Grenfell Tower

Kudoscycles

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Apr 15, 2011
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It has often concerned me how fire is fought in hire rise buildings.
Anyone who has travelled to Shanghai must have seen the hundreds,maybe thousands of 20 storey plus x 6 flats each storey buildings.
I wonder how fire is fought in these buildings. I don't think they have sprinklers but logic would say that some means of getting water to the top via insulated pipes would help.
I understand that the fire brigade have to fight these fires from the ground up.
I was once in a hotel in Belgium on about the 7th floor, the personal escape system was a braked wire drum attached to the hotel room wall, you put a harness and jumped!
Just come back today, EasyJet had a collection on the plane towards helping the victims of Grenfell, it appeared well contributed .
KudosDave
 

flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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Just come back today, EasyJet had a collection on the plane towards helping the victims of Grenfell, it appeared well contributed
I doubt money will be a problem for the victims, since the government has set up a £5 million fund for them. Grenfell Tower had 120 flats, so that averages nearly £42,000 per home. Equivalent rental and mostly council flats should easily be furnished and re-equipped with that much money.

Their personal losses and the horrific experience they lived through can never be compensated, but at least they have no material worries now.
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soundwave

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I doubt money will be a problem for the victims, since the government has set up a £5 million fund for them. Grenfell Tower had 120 flats, so that averages nearly £42,000 per home. Equivalent rental and mostly council flats should easily be furnished and re-equipped with that much money.
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good luck down the dwp then as that means no home or money pmsl
 

flecc

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good luck down the dwp then as that means no home or money pmsl
Not so, their council and the government have promised they will be rehomed in the same area, so the council tenants will continue with rent etc as before. I'm quite sure the grant money for replacements will not be assessed as if it were income or capital, given the current public mood that would create a riot. We're close to that now.

And it shouldn't be forgotten that many of the flats were privately owned by employed people with means, not on benefits.
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soundwave

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you watch there will be a riot dwp are a law on to them self and wont give a shite ;)
 

Danidl

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I doubt money will be a problem for the victims, since the government has set up a £5 million fund for them. Grenfell Tower had 120 flats, so that averages nearly £42,000 per home. Equivalent rental and mostly council flats should easily be furnished and re-equipped with that much money.

Their personal losses and the horrific experience they lived through can never be compensated, but at least they have no material worries now.
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I hope that was intended to be sarcastic, in unlikely event that it was not... 42k would not go far, replace the entire contents of a flat, replace bedding and clothes , additional costs in extra medical visits for damaged respiratory tract, burying family members
 

flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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I hope that was intended to be sarcastic, in unlikely event that it was not... 42k would not go far, replace the entire contents of a flat, replace bedding and clothes , additional costs in extra medical visits for damaged respiratory tract, burying family members
No, it wasn't intended to be sarcastic. These were mainly council flats with a very high proportion occupied by immigrants, many recent including from such as Syria, Libya etc and arriving here with nothing. They are unlikely to have high levels of possessions or particularly expensive ones.

Of course I'm not including medical and funeral costs, as I stated only material possessions. And of course the government grant will not be the only help, far from it, as Dave's Easyjet example shows.
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Danidl

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No, it wasn't intended to be sarcastic. These were mainly council flats with a very high proportion occupied by immigrants, many recent including from such as Syria, Libya etc and arriving here with nothing. They are unlikely to have high levels of possessions or particularly expensive ones.

Of course I'm not including medical and funeral costs, as I stated only material possessions. And of course the government grant will not be the only help, far from it, as Dave's Easyjet example shows.
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I have since seen the public press statements and it is termed Emergency relief, so once it starts , it should alliviate immediate problems..... Provided they can identify the refugees
A related matter is that there seems a very long delay in tabulating the statistics. .. How many people were expected to have been in the flats, how many are currently accounted for as safe or minimally physically injured, the number of seriously ill and the number of known fatalities ( this seems to be the only published number) . The number of people who exited the building on their own and the number who were assisted by the fire service
Obviously some of this data is difficult to collect , but crèches , school attendance lists, medical services social services and rent books, and voter registration, should have been combined by this stage.
 

soundwave

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we own it let the fkn ppl that need it use it ;)
 
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soundwave

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it is if we got to pay to fix it because it is a fire death trap as well pmsl:D
 

mike killay

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Feb 17, 2011
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I have since seen the public press statements and it is termed Emergency relief, so once it starts , it should alliviate immediate problems..... Provided they can identify the refugees
A related matter is that there seems a very long delay in tabulating the statistics. .. How many people were expected to have been in the flats, how many are currently accounted for as safe or minimally physically injured, the number of seriously ill and the number of known fatalities ( this seems to be the only published number) . The number of people who exited the building on their own and the number who were assisted by the fire service
Obviously some of this data is difficult to collect , but crèches , school attendance lists, medical services social services and rent books, and voter registration, should have been combined by this stage.
Apparently our 'overwhelming fascist government' do not actually have accurate data on all of us.
I have seen it said that Amazon or Google probably have more accurate data than the Council.
Sadly, we must steel ourselves for the fact that the number who were killed may never be accurately known.
Bear in mind, not only were there residents in these flats, but visitors etc.
The Police hope that some who escaped, not being able to speak English, have not reported their survival, but that is a slim chance.
I do not envy the Fire Service, Police and Ambulance in the task ahead of them to search each flat, rake through the ashes to determine whether, seeing just how hot the fire was, there are any human remains.
Sad, sad times.
 
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Kudoscycles

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Theresa May has not any idea how to be compassionate,not once in her interview did she suggest care,more concerned that she should not be distracted from her robotic answers.
This is typical why she lost so badly in the recent election ,she doesn't understand people and how to react to grief.
She finds it very difficult to say sorry.
She has to go,she is useless for our country.
I dread to consider how she is going to negotiate Brexit which needs an understanding of all the elements,appreciate all the conflicting outcomes,it needs a deft touch which is not part of her CV.
KudosDave
 
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soundwave

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you watch the council will sell that site when all is done and make a tidy profit on it to the tune of 10s of millions for private 1million quid flats 6x24 150 million quid for a developer.

and i bet not 1 council house is built even anywhere near it any time soon if at all.
 
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Kudoscycles

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My job involves me staying in hotels throughout the world. I used to think the wallpaper,widely used,was wood chip,but a manager explained it was additional fireproofing containing fibreglass.
I am sure that private buildings such as hotels are forced to incorporate fire protection,I remember constantly being forced by councils to install hard wire smoke alarms,fire proof materials,extinguishers on even 2-story houses.
Seems councils don't put the same standards,when they have to pay for it themselves.
Looks like big money will have to be spent on these old high rise buildings to upgrade the fire safety protection....Theresa May get the piggy bank out.
KudosDave
 

oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
I am inclined to agree with you d8veh, but there are certain aspects of this current catastrophic event which may have a political dimension.
'Danidl', you have the same rather irritating habit as Henry Kissinger in that you portray a character wishing to appear neutral but in reality, you run with the hares and hunt with the hounds.

Of course there is a political aspect to this tragedy - one only has to consider the cuts capitalist government has imposed on local councils, on emergency services budgets and all the forced outsourcing from direct labour to profit-motivated private companies.

This horrendous tragedy presents many features distinguishing it from simply a terrible accident to something far more sinister, something that may well in due course place the root cause at the door of the tory party and their economic policies.

My comments on this matter have drawn the wrath of the right-wing extremist contributors on this forum because all those who support far-right politics just will not hear a word against their beloved tory party. If anyone should be to blame for each and every ill in the UK, it is always the fault of someone else and not the tory government or their supporters. It seems that it must have been the poor, the sick, the pensioners, the homeless, the immigrants and the socialists who created all the problems which beset the UK.

It is no surprise that the far-right wish to silence those who seek to apportion responsibility where it belongs - such is the way of all fascists.

The scenes of volunteers helping to distribute aid to those made homeless is not something organised by tory HQ; it is an expression of humanitarianism, the basis of socialism, at work. This help is freely given by people who don't question the origins of those in need. However, I have been disgusted by some comments I have read on social media and heard elsewhere regarding the fact that Grenfell Tower was largely occupied by immigrants, many of whom were muslim, black, etc..........and some really extreme advice as to how we need more Grenfell Towers to sort these problems.

No doubt, that kind of remarks will be regarded by the right-wingers as fair comment, just as the murder of Jo Cox MP was so blithely accepted as just a bit of collateral damage in the bigger picture of achieving independence from 27 other states, none of which share the English language.

I didn't turn 'Brexit' into the poisoned chalice and hot potato it has become. Neither did I exert political influence in London by anything I may have said or done. Those who complain that this human tragedy should not be politicised really need to take a step back and examine, for example, the actions of Boris Johnson, particularly in regard to water cannon, fire station closures and their subsequent sale to his cronies for next to nothing - they need also examine the tory party's savage cuts to local authority budgets.

These things are nothing if not political choices and as a result of such political choices, we are faced with possibly the biggest human disaster in London since the 1950s rail crashes at Lewisham and Harrow & Wealdstone. Lessons were learned from those tragedies and changes implemented to prevent recurrence. Sadly, it appears that little has changed since the wake-up call of the 2009 Camberwell tower block fire.

Tom
 

Woosh

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May 19, 2012
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oldtom, this thread should be about the catastrophic failure of a solution to building insulation.
Politicising it is simply wrong.
wrong place, wrong time.
 

oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
oldtom, this thread should be about the catastrophic failure of a solution to building insulation.
Politicising it is simply wrong.
wrong place, wrong time.
As I was the OP on this thread, I really don't need your advice as to how or what I should contribute to the story.

Your needless regurgitation of a previously made point just illustrates how you cannot accept that this tragedy was born out of political choices, systems, finances, lack of attention to rules and regulation, H&S issues, all abused or ignored by individuals and/or groups. I will press the case that this tragedy requires to be addressed on a political level now - not some unspecified time in the future which you or any other dissenter may deem decent and prudent.

Let's just take a quick look at some of the material from the media:

Here we have the PM apparently meeting some of the brave firefighters from the scene of the inferno:

19145821_833839510108304_8507314629310028435_n.jpg

While those people may well have been frontline firefighters once upon a time, they are certainly not the ones who went inside Grenfell Tower.

Then we have a tory MP voice a poorly-chosen comment about the anger that was demonstrated yesterday by some in London:

19095578_1498366230225409_7961336841407995703_o.jpg

He, of course, is not politicising the matter!

Political ideals drove the names on this list to vote against an eminently sensible proposal:

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David Lammy MP make a fair case in this interview:


Turning to the non-mainstram media, the web blogger, AAV, produces a fair critique of the man behind the company which produced the flammable insulating tiles:

tony-rice-is-not-bad-man-but-hes-cashed.html

Those who attempt to claim this matter is not political and find it unpleasant, uncomfortable or unacceptable to read any criticism which refers to politics or politicians really need to get their heads out of the sand and stop living in denial.

It is all about politics, all of it, so all this, 'Not the right time/not the right place' guff is just sham. It is an effort to divert criticism away from the political will which created the conditions for exactly this kind of tragedy.

Tom
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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Obviously some of this data is difficult to collect , but crèches , school attendance lists, medical services social services and rent books, and voter registration, should have been combined by this stage.
I think they prefer to make sure of the data before releasing any of it, and frankly I don't blame them, given how unforgiving the media and public are.

A high proportion of these immigrant residents won't be on the electoral roll or even registered to doctors etc, and in London there's often illegals staying with them. In the end there will be a final count of the human remains, which will probably produce the only accurate figure.
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Woosh

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May 19, 2012
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As I was the OP on this thread, I really don't need your advice as to how or what I should contribute to the story.
your comment shows members how arrogant you are.
 

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