Greetings - and a load of questions!

[Ben2016]

Hi all.

New member here after having a bit of a browse over the last few days.

It's been a long time since I've had access to a bike (a good 12 years I reckon for a shared bike, probably 20 since I owned one back in my teens) and I've been wanting to get back on two wheels for a long time. But a lack of fitness coupled with a leg problem which makes pedalling awkward (in that one foot cannot remain on the pedal at its apex) has put me off the traditional bicycle for anything more than hiring on days out.

However, I've been pondering about getting an e-bike for a while with the expectation that the motor assistance will overcome the loss of power from that awkward pedalling and am almost at the point where I'm sure they're the right solution for me to get mobile and perhaps will be looking at getting one perhaps this year but if not, hopefully next.

Whilst I know line-ups can change in that time, I've been having a bit of a browse online and currently have shortlisted either the Wisper 705SE or 905SE, with me being particularly keen on the throttle that will take the bike to 15MPH regardless of the actual speed of forward motion on the pedals (have I got that right, that as long as the pedals are moving, the throttle can be used to control speed? I know about the legal restriction where pedals have to be used.)

I have some questions that I'm getting hung-up on that perhaps people here can help out with …


1 - Are there any other models with a similar throttle system to the Wisper? Due to my leg issue, assistance is important and is why I'm looking at an e-bike in the first place. Whilst I like the Wisper, if there are other similar options then I'd like to compare - particularly if there are good but cheaper options (not trying to skimp here but finances are a bit tight and the Wispers really are at the absolute limit of affordability for me). FYI, I'll not be commuting - this will be for leisure cycling only at the moment. Mostly on tarmac but including some rougher dirt paths too.

2 - I'd like to take my potential bike away on holiday and days out either in the UK or Europe i.e., I'll need to transport it by car. I'm concerned about the weight though as a lot of car bike racks (at least those in Halfords) appear to have an individual bike limit of 15kg which I understand electric bikes at this sort of price range will exceed even with the battery removed. How do others transport their bikes? Of course, I could consider the folding model in the Wisper range or elsewhere, in which case, what would be the day to day drawbacks of the smaller bike compared to the full-sized options I'm considering.

3 - Regarding batteries, am I right in assuming these are proprietary to the brand, if not electrically then physically? I guess it's really an impossible to answer question seeing how no-one can predict the future, but how easy is it likely to be to be able to get a replacement battery in years to come? Obviously assuming the bike lasts and continues to fulfil my needs, I'd rather not have to replace the whole thing in, say, 5 or 10 years just because of an expired battery.

4 - Finally (for now at least), I don't know what the release cycle is for manufacturers but I've seen one or two posts here enquiring about new models which makes me think that perhaps I should be waiting a month of two to see what new models come out. Would this be a fair assessment? Of course, I don't want to fall into the trap of forever waiting for the next thing but neither do I want to buy just to find that newer, better, similarly priced models are released just weeks later (or that my chosen models will as a result drop in price).


Apologies for the rather long opening post and if these questions are better asked elsewhere, I'm happy to do so. But thanks in advance for your input.

Ben

 

[Mike63]

Hi welcome to Pedelecs,
.....without doubt the best way to transport your bike, is also the most expensive, but it's a one off.
I paid £220 to have a tow bar, with one electric, fitted, and £44 for an excellent "Thule" rack which clamps securely onto the towball.
Carries my 24 kilo ebike no trouble.

....good luck.....Mike

 

[Ben2016]

Thanks Mike. I'll have to sweet-talk my wife for that one since it's her car! But I do like the look of it, although it's a shame about the cost. Presumably this would be the only realistic option?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

The racks that don't fit on a towball are as good as useless for electric bikes. Unfortunately, if you don't have a towball, that would be a problem, though I've often carried an alectric bike behind the front seats. You take of the front wheel (normally quick release), loosen the two stem clamp screws, turn the handlebars in line with the bike and then thread the bike through. It helps if you have someone on each side of the car to lift it in.

In case you don't know, the Wisper comes with a 6 km/hr max throttle, but it can be reset to full range. You can do the same with many other bikes that have the throttle set to 6 km/h.

Although new bikes are coming out all the time, I wouldn't expect any fundamental changes, so there's no point in waiting.

It's not unusual for electric bikes to have small problems that are easy to fix, especially the bikes at the cheaper end of the scale. If you're good with electrics and have a mechanical bent, then the cheap mail order bikes are worth going for, otherwise you should value the support of a local dealer and buy whatever he has.

The Wisper 905 Torque is a very good match to your requirement if you can afford it.

http://www.e-bikesdirect.co.uk/ is a good source of cheap electric bikes. They have a good range of cheap bikes and they offer good support for a mail order company. They have their own brand as well that has a throttle that can be reset to full range.

http://www.e-bikesdirect.co.uk/Item/Brands/Green_Edge/Greenedge_CS2_Electric_Mountain_Bike_Pre-Order.aspx

Woosh is another good supplier of mail order bikes.

The cheaper bikes have standard batteries that you can get from a number of sources, so don't worry about that. If you're not sure about the battery on your final selection, post a picture of it and we'll tell you if it's unique to the bike/brand.

 

[JuicyBike]

4 - Finally (for now at least), I don't know what the release cycle is for manufacturers but I've seen one or two posts here enquiring about new models which makes me think that perhaps I should be waiting a month of two to see what new models come out. Would this be a fair assessment? Of course, I don't want to fall into the trap of forever waiting for the next thing but neither do I want to buy just to find that newer, better, similarly priced models are released just weeks later (or that my chosen models will as a result drop in price).

Hi Ben
THE place to see new models and get great deals is at the NEC Cycle Show (23rd - 25th Septemeber).
Lots of ebikes will be there this year and all the main brands will have show offers. There's a test track that will allow you to directly compare bikes and you'll get to see the latest Juicys too.
We can take a look at your leg constraints and suggest some ways to best overcome the issue. We've adapted bikes for all sorts over the years and should be able to recommend a solution - for whichever bike or brand you decide upon.
Good luck with your search.

 

[Ben2016]

The racks that don't fit on a towball are as good as useless for electric bikes. Unfortunately, if you don't have a towball, that would be a problem, though I've often carried an alectric bike behind the front seats. You take of the front wheel (normally quick release), loosen the two stem clamp screws, turn the handlebars in line with the bike and then thread the bike through. It helps if you have someone on each side of the car to lift it in.

In case you don't know, the Wisper comes with a 6 km/hr max throttle, but it can be reset to full range. You can do the same with many other bikes that have the throttle set to 6 km/h.

Although new bikes are coming out all the time, I wouldn't expect any fundamental changes, so there's no point in waiting.

It's not unusual for electric bikes to have small problems that are easy to fix, especially the bikes at the cheaper end of the scale. If you're good with electrics and have a mechanical bent, then the cheap mail order bikes are worth going for, otherwise you should value the support of a local dealer and buy whatever he has.

The Wisper 905 Torque is a very good match to your requirement if you can afford it.

http://www.e-bikesdirect.co.uk/ is a good source of cheap electric bikes. They have a good range of cheap bikes and they offer good support for a mail order company. They have their own brand as well that has a throttle that can be reset to full range.

http://www.e-bikesdirect.co.uk/Item/Brands/Green_Edge/Greenedge_CS2_Electric_Mountain_Bike_Pre-Order.aspx

Woosh is another good supplier of mail order bikes.

The cheaper bikes have standard batteries that you can get from a number of sources, so don't worry about that. If you're not sure about the battery on your final selection, post a picture of it and we'll tell you if it's unique to the bike/brand.

Thanks very much for that and particularly the comments about bike racks. Unfortunately fitting the bike into the rear passenger foot-well isn't an option as we have child seats fitted so it looks like the tow-bar will need to be a serious consideration - probably one for a year or two after getting the bike

With the throttle, I'm not too worried about delimiting the 'twist and go' aspect (i.e., propulsion with no pedalling) although it's interesting that it's an option. But my understanding on the Wisper is that the throttle will control the speed of the bike up to the legal limit regardless of how hard the peddles are turned, just so long as they are being turned. Is that right or have I misunderstood something somewhere?

Thanks for the suggestion on the 905 Torque. It'll be out of my price range unfortunately with the SE models really at the limit.

Hi Ben
THE place to see new models and get great deals is at the NEC Cycle Show (23rd - 25th Septemeber).
Lots of ebikes will be there this year and all the main brands will have show offers. There's a test track that will allow you to directly compare bikes and you'll get to see the latest Juicys too.
We can take a look at your leg constraints and suggest some ways to best overcome the issue. We've adapted bikes for all sorts over the years and should be able to recommend a solution - for whichever bike or brand you decide upon.
Good luck with your search.

That's perfect! Thanks very much for pointing it out! It's just the thing I need to get a hands-on idea of what's what. It's all very well reading up on things and browsing the various shops but nothing would beat seeing and testing bikes in person.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Hi Ben,

May I try to answer your points?

1 - There are several good alternatives to Wisper with throttles, legally they can only propel the bike, without pedaling, up to 4mph, though many can be derestricted if you ask. I would rather not mention them all in case I forget someone, but Juicy and Kudos are good brands, they both post here.

2 - There are many racks on the market that will carry up to 50kg in three bikes so any of these would work for you. I would not compromise by looking at light weight bikes, full sized bikes would certainly be more comfortable for you.

3 - Regarding batteries, we still hold stock of batteries for our bikes going back seven years. We will continue to do this.

4 - Finally. The bikes we have on sale now will be available until at least 2018 with a few minor changes. Our new bikes will be in the shops next year but at the moment we don't have a firm timescale so it could be 12 months away.

I hope this helps.

All the best, David

 

[Angelnorth]

Hello, welcome!

But my understanding on the Wisper is that the throttle will control the speed of the bike up to the legal limit regardless of how hard the peddles are turned, just so long as they are being turned. Is that right or have I misunderstood something somewhere?

You haven't misunderstood. I have the Torque rather than the SE but they work the same way - just keep the pedals turning (no force required) while you twist the throttle and the motor will get to work. I'm guessing there are others beside the Wisper that do the same but I'm afraid I don't know which they might be.

The 4mph can be really useful if you need to wheel the bike along anywhere since you don't need to get it going as a dead weight, just a gentle twist on the throttle and it will glide along next to you as you walk (or pull like a large dog if you twist too hard without thinking!).

You're right to home in on the importance of riding some, there's really no substitute for getting a few test rides under your belt. The show at the NEC sounds ideal for you - with a Warwickshire starting point it can't be a million miles away and it would be the perfect opportunity to see and compare lots of makes.

Have fun finding the right bike for you!

 

[RobF]

Ben,

You seem to be saying you cannot fully pedal a bicycle - irrespective of load.

That could be a problem because legal ebikes are no balls of fire, so on full throttle you may not be able to climb much of an incline.

Rider weight and motor power comes into it, some legal motors are more powerful than others.

One of the most pokey is made by BPM, it's fitted to some woosh and Kudos bikes, among others.

Both companies post on here and are helpful.

Dave from Kudos is often prepared to send a bike on approval, so if you could get hold of one of his BPM bikes to try you would be a lot further forward in your search.

 

[Ben2016]

Thanks David and Angelnorth. You've both given me some very useful help.

I'm certainly favouring attending the Cycle Show - with it only forty minutes away, it'd be silly not to really. I was a little worried about having to make many different shop visits in different areas to try different models but this solves that problem!

Ben,

You seem to be saying you cannot fully pedal a bicycle - irrespective of load.

That could be a problem because legal ebikes are no balls of fire, so on full throttle you may not be able to climb much of an incline.

Rider weight and motor power comes into it, some legal motors are more powerful than others.

One of the most pokey is made by BPM, it's fitted to some woosh and Kudos bikes, among others.

Both companies post on here and are helpful.

Dave from Kudos is often prepared to send a bike on approval, so if you could get hold of one of his BPM bikes to try you would be a lot further forward in your search.

Thanks for your comment, Rob. I do have hampered pedalling but have successfully ridden traditional bikes at a fair pace and duration on roads and bike routes since my leg became an issue. Whilst I know the e-bikes are heavier than traditional bikes, my hope is the motor will make up for that weight as well as cover the bit of power loss my hampered pedalling causes. This would be particularly helpful when starting off, more than when I'm underway.

The throttle assist that's present on the Wisper range I want to help more with stamina and range. I'm not particularly fit at the moment and so I need a mode of transport that will help me travel to somewhere without feeling exhausted but can also be included in my fitness improvement plan when out for casual bike rides.

Of course, I may be wrong and I may find they're not suitable, which is why I need to try some out first! Fingers crossed though!

 

[RobF]

Seems I misunderstood, if you can still pedal OK an ebike may work for you.

I wouldn't get too hung up on full speed throttles.

A start-up throttle will get you going, and after that on a speed sensor bike you can get full assistance just by upping the power level and turning the pedals.

What you are probably best to avoid is a bike with a torque sensor.

They tend to give a better rendition of ordinary cycling, but with the feel of extra leg power,.

All other things being equal, previously keen cyclists tend to like torque sensor bikes.

But all other things are not equal in your case.

Torque sensor bikes are a bit more complicated, and can be a bit dearer, which means there are cost and reliability benefits to a simpler speed sensor bike.

 

[Angelnorth]

I'm certainly favouring attending the Cycle Show - with it only forty minutes away, it'd be silly not to really.

I just had a quick look at the web site and they're saying:

ELECTRIC BIKE VILLAGE

Brought you by Shimano Steps, meet all of the leading brands including Royal Dutch Gazelle, KTM, Wisper, RooDog, Juicy, Momentum, Cube, Cytronex and Batribike and try before you buy on a dedicated eBike friendly test track with over 100 bikes to try.

which sounds perfect - different brands in different styles and a track to try them on as well as plenty of expertise on hand. The cost of a ticket should be fairly easy to justify in terms of the time/transport cost saving of tramping round different shops!

 

[Kudoscycles]

Ben,all good questions and my competitors have all given you good answers. You need to visit a dealer and try some bikes,is Fosse electric bikes of Fosse,Leicester,near to you?
To try to answer your questions...
Firstly,how tall are you,how much do you weigh.?
With regard to your leg problem a throttle may be useful but the momentum of the bike may help you rotate over top centre,you should avoid a torque sensor bike,a hub drive would probably be best.
1. Throttle,from January 2016 throttles up to 15 mph were made illegal ,up to 4 mph are ok,but they will probably not help you. Kudos has 2 bikes that were imported before January that legally have full speed throttle....the Kudos Safari and Kudos Secret.
2. The Kudos Safari would be a bit heavy to hump around but the Kudos Secret is light at 18kg. I myself use the Secret in a very mountainous area,the small wheels(20")don't bother me but I don't go on rides longer than 20 miles,the Secret now has a 10,4Ah battery good for 30 miles range,it is reasonably priced at £765.00
3. Batteries,there must be 50 different types so it is important to buy from a retailer who has some history and looks like to be around for some time,also important to ask cost of battery replacements,Kudos batteries cost from £165.00 to £260.00
4. New releases,at your price budget I cannot see many new models on the horizon ,however what I can see are some big price rises due to the fall in the value of the £ ,post Brexit,most are likely to be 10%.
You are not going to find a bike to do everything you want,inevitably you are going to have to decide your priorities....from what you have advised my Kudos Secret or others similar would be your best option....if you want bigger wheels then my new Kudos Sprint may do your job.
I will send a bike out on sale or return,provided you agree to the return carriage...
Good luck.
KudosDave

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Thanks David and Angelnorth. You've both given me some very useful help.

I'm certainly favouring attending the Cycle Show - with it only forty minutes away, it'd be silly not to really. I was a little worried about having to make many different shop visits in different areas to try different models but this solves that problem!



Thanks for your comment, Rob. I do have hampered pedalling but have successfully ridden traditional bikes at a fair pace and duration on roads and bike routes since my leg became an issue. Whilst I know the e-bikes are heavier than traditional bikes, my hope is the motor will make up for that weight as well as cover the bit of power loss my hampered pedalling causes. This would be particularly helpful when starting off, more than when I'm underway.

The throttle assist that's present on the Wisper range I want to help more with stamina and range. I'm not particularly fit at the moment and so I need a mode of transport that will help me travel to somewhere without feeling exhausted but can also be included in my fitness improvement plan when out for casual bike rides.

Of course, I may be wrong and I may find they're not suitable, which is why I need to try some out first! Fingers crossed though!

Hi Ben, if you email me your address, I'll send you a comp ticket for the show.

David@amps.bike

All the best, David

 

[Suseka]

HI Ben and welcome.

Lots of good and well informed advice has been given, so I won't add to it -but just to say that I ride the Wisper 705se and my partner rides the 905se version. We love them both - I opted for the stepthrough (705) simply because I'm a 'shorty' .

For me the 'walk assist' (4mph max) has been useful when I've gotten off to push the bike up a few steeper grassy inclines that I've not been confident enough to ride up. Had a slight mishap one day though when I turned the throttle a little too quickly and the bike set off quicker than me - lol.

The pedal assistance is simply great - you can increase or decrease the assistance easily and adjust the gears to fit your stamina level on any given ride.

I'd snap David's hand off with the 'comp ticket' - it'll really help you decide and above all, test, the brands and models you are interested in. If I lived closer I'd be tempted to go have a nosey myself.

Good luck with your search and let us know how you get on.

 

[Ben2016]

Apologies for the delay in replying. I've not been able to get back here until now but I just wanted to thank everyone for their comments again.

KudosDave - thanks for your comments and highlighting your range to me which I'd not yet seen. I'm a little heavy at 95kg so I would think the Secret is probably just a little too lightweight for me once factoring in anything I want to carry with me. Like you say, the Safari is a bit too heavy on paper. But thanks again for suggesting them and I will look through your range.

Rob - thanks for the advice re torque sensor bikes. I'd done some reading and you've backed up the conclusion that I had also reached whereby the simpler speed sensors would be the best option for me.

David - your offer is very kind and I'll drop a message your way. Thank you.

Suseka - I appreciate the comments on your experience with the two Wisper bikes. I've never ridden a step-through frame before so it'll be interesting to try it out.


The e-bike world, I think, is a complex one to enter into for someone new, not helped by recent legislation changes which, from my perspective at least, have caused some confusion about exactly what is legal and what isn't.

This forum has been a definite help in that regard and I'm most impressed by how helpful you've all been to a newcomer with some perhaps slightly unusual requirements! I'll definitely be keeping an eye on the discussions here and will certainly be back with my experiences if and when I progress.

Thanks again.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Line received!

 

[Ben2016]

Just thought I'd post a quick follow-up to this thread rather than leave it hanging.

I went to the Cycle Show at the NEC on Saturday with a ticket courtesy of David who has had my thanks. This was the first time I'd been to such an event and I found it useful to get my first experience of e-bikes.

I had a chat with David and one of his colleagues at the AMPS stand where I got to see the two bike models that I was initially considering between - the 705 SE and 905 SE. Although similar, these were the two bikes that I had shortlisted due to price and reputation and I just needed to try them out to decide whether I'd prefer the step-through or step-over frame.

Trying these two bikes was the first time I'd ridden any sort of bike for over three years and the first time ever on an electrically assisted model and I was impressed. I had a little wobble to start off with but like they say, you never forget, and I was soon off. It took me a little while to get to grips with how the assist worked as initially I was overusing the throttle and then, when releasing it, wondering why the motor was still running and I was moving faster than I expected. It didn't take long before I got the hang of it though.

Trying it out on the hill, I did think it's still hard work to get to the top. So I decided to do a little test and shut off the assistance for a lap - what a difference that was. It really brought to light just how well the assistance works. Putting in the effort isn't a bad thing of course. I want to use these bikes as part of a general fitness improvement regime as well as a mode of transport so I don't want to feel like I'm doing next to nothing.

After trying the SE and being pleased with the experience, just for fun I decided I'd try the 705 Torque and I'm glad I did. I found it a significantly improvement over the SE with the power being more obvious and quicker to respond. I also preferred the gear controls and having the controller screen independent of the controls.

So now I've changed on which model to buy and am favouring a Torque but I still need to decide for certain on the frame style. I liked the easy of mounting the bike with the step-through version but image wise (and yes, I know I shouldn't care about image but to a point I do), as a mid-thirties male, I can't help but wonder if that's the right choice. Step-over frames are a little more difficult to use but nowhere near prohibitively so. The cross bar on the step-over model also offers additional anchor points for kit e.g., a phone or other hobby kit that I might want to transport.

So that's where I'm at. As I'm increasing my budget, I'll be taking a while longer before I buy but these test rides and seeing the bikes in person have certainly been important in helping to make sure I get the model that's right for me.

 

[Angelnorth]

I liked the easy of mounting the bike with the step-through version but image wise (and yes, I know I shouldn't care about image but to a point I do), as a mid-thirties male, I can't help but wonder if that's the right choice.

Just claim you have Dutch blood

Good to hear you had some fun trying things out and seem to have found something you like!

 

[Deleted member 4366]

A stepthrough won't get nicked!