greener miles

[Joe]

How effective are electric bikes at reducing our petrol miles?
Last year i did 6000 miles by car and around 2000 miles by piaggio scooter.
This year i am hoping to replace the scooter with an electric bike and so edge down a little further my contribution to pollution.

how about you?

 

[HarryB]

Not much for me I am afraid. I use mine to commute to work in London and I wouldn't dream of driving to work (except on a late shift on a Sunday). It probably has more or less the same impact on the environment as using public transport (perhaps a little less than buses). I do use it instead of the car for runs under a few miles when I am on my own. This morning I think I was the only one out in the pouring rain on my ebike when I went to pick up a parcel at the sorting office - everyone else arrived by car.

How do you all think an electric bike compares to public transport in terms of its impact on the environment? I have had somebody at work telling me it is worse than using public transport but I think it is a difficult comparison - probably too difficult to work out with any accuracy.

 

[frank9755]

I can't face trying to work out the e-bike vs bus maths at the moment either!
But some studies have been done which show the e-bike in a favourable light, both from the point of view of cost and carbon-efficiency.

"The cost of owning and operating an e-bike is the lowest of all personal motorized transportation in China."

"Despite the intuitive sense that electric bikes would require more resources than
regular bikes, life-cycle analysis shows that they actually consume 2-4 times less
primary energy than human riders eating a conventional diet. This conclusion is
largely due to the considerable amount of transportation and processing energy
that is associated with our western food system."

I haven't driven much for a few years, but I think electric bikes have helped me knock a few more tens of miles off my annual total, mainly by replacing the car on local errands (0.5-10 mile round trips).

 

[giguana]

I think a lot of people here probably do 100km every week,

 

[HarryB]

I can't face trying to work out the e-bike vs bus maths at the moment either!
But some studies have been done which show the e-bike in a favourable light, both from the point of view of cost and carbon-efficiency.

"The cost of owning and operating an e-bike is the lowest of all personal motorized transportation in China."

"Despite the intuitive sense that electric bikes would require more resources than
regular bikes, life-cycle analysis shows that they actually consume 2-4 times less
primary energy than human riders eating a conventional diet. This conclusion is
largely due to the considerable amount of transportation and processing energy
that is associated with our western food system."

I haven't driven much for a few years, but I think electric bikes have helped me knock a few more tens of miles off my annual total, mainly by replacing the car on local errands (0.5-10 mile round trips).

I have skimmed through these and can only conclude that I am probably more green than a normal cyclist - provided that they are not a vegetarian! At least I will have some ammunition next time I am criticised for using electricity rather than pedal power alone.

 

[Joe]

i agree harryb alot of disincentive is around safety. modern cars with quiet engines and smooth acceleration with abs, airbags, etc i am sure has caused a deterioration in driving standards. on my scooter i had the experience of dangerous overtakes (too close to me, too long in the oncoming lane, on approach to bends etc) on just about every trip.
i try to cycle on back roads even if the trip is longer.

 

[HarryB]

For me it is a sign of getting older - far too many people drive too fast at inappropriate places and in inappropriate conditions. Even today I was scared walking my daughters to the town in the rain - I don't think that drivers even noticed the rain or how wet the roads were, if they were on foot they would have had a different perspective. I wish that the roads were policed better and drivers were better educated. I am not holding my breath...

Inner London is not too bad for cycling and I never take the long way round as it would defeat one of the main objectives of cycling (which is to save time over public transport). Anyway we are moving off topic, an interesting one btw.

 

[Grizzly Bear]

Not much for me I am afraid. I use mine to commute to work in London and I wouldn't dream of driving to work (except on a late shift on a Sunday). It probably has more or less the same impact on the environment as using public transport (perhaps a little less than buses). I do use it instead of the car for runs under a few miles when I am on my own. This morning I think I was the only one out in the pouring rain on my ebike when I went to pick up a parcel at the sorting office - everyone else arrived by car.

How do you all think an electric bike compares to public transport in terms of its impact on the environment? I have had somebody at work telling me it is worse than using public transport but I think it is a difficult comparison - probably too difficult to work out with any accuracy.

Harry you were not alone this morning, as usual I cycled to work 06:30 in the pouring rain, smiling even though I had an extreemly runny nose. Electric bikes are the most environmentally friendly form of transport, but I do it because I love riding my bike.

 

[flecc]

I've never differentiated between my unpowered and powered cycling, and in recent years my highest mileage was unpowered, sometimes topping 5000 miles a year. That's probably because of the range restrictions of e-bikes, with which my mileage has dropped to the 2000 to 3000 miles region.

Car mileage has for years been below 1000 miles a year, in some years as low as around 400 miles. I view the car as a stable tin umbrella for when conditions are really bad.
.

 

[Ian]

My bikes does reduce my carbon footprint to some extent. My job involves driving so I have no choice while at work, but once home the car now sees little use, most shopping and social trips being done on the bikes, but like Grizz the main reason for doing it is because I like it.


I don't think there can be any doubt that e-bikes, even with no rider assistance are much greener than public transport, at least for most of the time. Petrol & diesel fuels contain about 40MJ of energy per litre, that's about 11kWh or 28 charges for a typical e-bike.

So, assuming the bus carries an average of 30 passengers and does 4 miles per litre each passenger is doing the equivalent of 120 miles on 11 kWh of energy or about 11 miles per kWh. (Most of which is wasted as unwanted heat)

By contrast the e-biker doing 20 miles on a 0.4 kWh charge is doing 50 miles per KWh. (Very little of which is wasted)

In order for the above to be a fair comparison we need to take into account that there have been considerable losses in the electricity supply before it reaches our battery, 45% probably being a typical overall efficiency figure for the generation and supply network which reduces the bikes miles per kWh figure to about 22, but still twice that of the bus.

I think the average occupancy of the bus may well be less than 30 passengers taking into account the empty trips to and from the depot and the off peak times when there may only be a handful of passengers, if this is the case then the bike has a greater advantage.

In the case of commuter trains and trams public transport may well be more efficient than our e-bike, at least at times when passenger numbers are high. Express trains however cannot compete with our bikes on efficiency alone, but few of us would consider using a bike for that kind of journey anyway.

 

[HarryB]

Thanks Ian for working it out in energy terms - there may be some more sums to do when using li-ion batteries, being replaced every six months can only harm the balance. You have worked out what I thought though, that we are more environmentally friendly than busses but difficult to compete with the efficiency of the tube. I normally travel at rush hour so the tube is at its most efficient, but then again it does have to run all day with much fewer passengers at a lower efficiency.

 

[Grizzly Bear]

My bikes does reduce my carbon footprint to some extent. My job involves driving so I have no choice while at work, but once home the car now sees little use, most shopping and social trips being done on the bikes, but like Grizz the main reason for doing it is because I like it.


I don't think there can be any doubt that e-bikes, even with no rider assistance are much greener than public transport, at least for most of the time. Petrol & diesel fuels contain about 40MJ of energy per litre, that's about 11kWh or 28 charges for a typical e-bike.

So, assuming the bus carries an average of 30 passengers and does 4 miles per litre each passenger is doing the equivalent of 120 miles on 11 kWh of energy or about 11 miles per kWh. (Most of which is wasted as unwanted heat)

By contrast the e-biker doing 20 miles on a 0.4 kWh charge is doing 50 miles per KWh. (Very little of which is wasted)

In order for the above to be a fair comparison we need to take into account that there have been considerable losses in the electricity supply before it reaches our battery, 45% probably being a typical overall efficiency figure for the generation and supply network which reduces the bikes miles per kWh figure to about 22, but still twice that of the bus.

I think the average occupancy of the bus may well be less than 30 passengers taking into account the empty trips to and from the depot and the off peak times when there may only be a handful of passengers, if this is the case then the bike has a greater advantage.

In the case of commuter trains and trams public transport may well be more efficient than our e-bike, at least at times when passenger numbers are high. Express trains however cannot compete with our bikes on efficiency alone, but few of us would consider using a bike for that kind of journey anyway.

Don't forget that the oil has to be got out of the ground, processed, and transported huge distances before it gets anywhere near a fuel tank. The generation of electricity could, if not for the unwarranted bad press against nuclear power stations be very green indeed.

 

[Joe]

i started off cycling as my main transport apart from the bus (round trip around 18 miles) as a student it was a vespa (52 miles round trip) and then with a job that required a car a whole series of them over the last decade.

i now have a different job where car use if required once or twice a fortnight.
i aim to see if cycling with electric assist will make me go out when its windy and or wet and allow me to tackle the two hills on the way without too much perspiration.

as well as enjoying cycling i am motivated for environmental reasons.

 

[flecc]

I think the average occupancy of the bus may well be less than 30 passengers taking into account the empty trips to and from the depot and the off peak times when there may only be a handful of passengers, if this is the case then the bike has a greater advantage.

We had a "green" tram system installed, 36 ton ULW vehicles belting up our hills with a bit short of the number of passengers a pair of buses weighing under 20 tons would carry. Their route takes them backwards and forwards across the local main roads all the time, at every point with traffic lights stopping long streams of road traffic which then have to accelerate back up to speed again.

To collect enough passengers, we have three buses running from about 4.30 am to 1 am the next night on a four mile loop collecting them, and they "follow my leader" continuously. The vast majority of these journeys are with no passengers at all, and only at the rush hour peaks is there any real occupancy. There are a further three buses doing the same on the opposite side of the tram/bus interchange.

Public transport as green against e-bikes? There's no contest!
.

 

[flecc]

The generation of electricity could, if not for the unwarranted bad press against nuclear power stations be very green indeed.

You see, we are in agreement.
.

 

[Ian]

Don't forget that the oil has to be got out of the ground, processed, and transported huge distances before it gets anywhere near a fuel tank. The generation of electricity could, if not for the unwarranted bad press against nuclear power stations be very green indeed.

Absolutely true Grizz, the only real efficiency competitor to our bikes being electric forms of mass transport, the downside being as with all public transport, a small minority of the general public!

 

[Ian]

The vast majority of these journeys are with no passengers at all, and only at the rush hour peaks is there any real occupancy.
.

Certainly the buses round here run empty for much of the time, I thought they may be busier in the London area but its seems that is not the case which makes them less green that I thought.

 

[flecc]

No, it's just as bad here Ian, and it grieves me seeing these buses running empty in meaningless circling all the time. It looks particularly foolish on weekday evenings from around 8 o'clock on, each looking like a forlorn unloved Marie Celestes. To make it worse, all the estate residents being unhappy with the still quite new but noisy buses we had before, TfL have replaced them with shiny brand new quiet ones with hydraulic suspension at goodness knows what cost, so the air inside travels comfortably.

But it gets worse, far worse. To further persuade people to use the Bus/tram transport, new semi-enclosed bus shelters were erected at every stop throughout this nice looking country edge housing estate, defiling the general appearance. The local "yoofs" welcomed these art boards with open arms and spray cans at the ready, so now we have a man with a van circling with the buses and cleaning off their masterpieces. Of course he didn't stand a chance of winning, as highlighted by the "yoof" with a sense of humour who spray tagged the back of his van while he wasn't looking.

To compensate for the loss of their artworks, the painters turned engravers, carving filigree artwork in the perspex windows of the shelters, which couldn't be removed of course. So TfLs answer was to send in an engineering crew to angle grind off all the sides of the shelters, removing any chance of them providing weather protection, so totally negating their installation.

The daftest/funniest aspect of all is the the artists now have free bus travel at all times so are able to roam the network for nothing to ensure their handiwork is everywhere.

You couldn't make it up!
.

 

[Tiberius]

"Despite the intuitive sense that electric bikes would require more resources than
regular bikes, life-cycle analysis shows that they actually consume 2-4 times less
primary energy than human riders eating a conventional diet. This conclusion is
largely due to the considerable amount of transportation and processing energy
that is associated with our western food system."

So, when I go to the gym, what I should really do is to take an electric motor and let that do the work for me.

Nick

 

[flecc]

So, when I go to the gym, what I should really do is to take an electric motor and let that do the work for me.

Nick

Music to the ears of all with a BMI of 30 or more.
.