Grand Prix anyone watch it?

[Mandy]

Hi All
Did anyone watch it?? My god that was some end to the season!
You have got to hand it to Louis after last years misery and mistakes.
I was on the edge of my seat in those last two laps! It was kinda will he won't he? lol!
I have never seen a winner of a race on the podium look so upset!!
Don't get me wrong I quite like Massa but am so glad Louis pulled it off.
That was a race for the history books I reckon
I Love F1!!!

 

[Blew it]

Oh yes!

Mandy,

Couldn't agree more!, I watched it twice.

The greatest sportsman in that race has to be Tino Glock, He took Hamiltons championship off him just for a short while, and then moved to the outside and gave it back. What a teaser!.

 

[Conal]

Lewis wins but gentleman Massa

I am glad Lewis won but was very impressed by Massa at the post-grand prix press conference. Quote - I know how to win and I know how to lose. Not a moan or criticism in sight! Hope it is as good a title race next year!

 

[flecc]

I am glad Lewis won but was very impressed by Massa at the post-grand prix press conference. Quote - I know how to win and I know how to lose. Not a moan or criticism in sight! Hope it is as good a title race next year!

I agree, and I feel sorry for Massa. If the champion is the best driver of the season it is arguably Felipe Massa and not Lewis. Massa was robbed of one win and ten points by a puncture right at one race end when he was coming in to win well ahead of the field, and on two other races the pit crew fouled up for him, almost certainly costing him one of those and another ten points. None of those incidents driver fault of course.

Personally I'd love to go back to the days when the cars started and ran the whole race non-stop with the fuel on board and one set of tyres. I want to watch drivers and cars racing, not pit crews skills and stewards decisions.
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[Mandy]

Go Lewis

Hi Guys

Yes Blew it I agree that was a bit sus but Lewis was in the position to claim the title before the rain and tyre fiasco. So who knows? Did he or didn't he?
He may have just struggled with the handling of the car on the tyres as the rain fell a bit heavier?

Hi Conal, yes I agree and I like Massa but I think the Ferrari crew may have jumped the gun and made matters worse which made it more emotional for him. Did you see the Ferrari team in the pits celebrating and then the look on their faces when they realised Massa hadn't won was pure TV gold!

Hi Flecc, I believe Lewis was robbed of the Belgian Grand prix victory and it was handed to Massa?! Lewis was by far the best in that race! Lewis was subject to other penalties which were a result of stupid steward decisions along with other drivers and I agree these decisions are getting a bit beyond a joke
Your right about Ferrari and their pitting mistakes, they sure have fouled up on occasions, lol!

I believe Lewis deserved to win together with my patriotic spirit lol!

Well I would go back to the Ayrton Senna days, now that man was a legend!!!

Ah well, what will next season bring with all the new rule changes etc? There may be trouble ahead --- so the song go's,

Regards

 

[flecc]

I agree on the Belgian GP Mandy, hence my comments on stewards decisions, though Massa takes the balance of the bad luck outside his control.

I preferred racing long before the Senna days though, when it was just drivers and cars and all the "extras" took no part.

At risk of upsetting US members, we have America to blame for many of the undesirable elements now, safety cars, pit stops and other gimmicky additions, all adopted from their utterly boring racing around oval bowl circuits. I see next year's big changes as possibly making F1 much worse.
.

 

[Mandy]

I agree on the Belgian GP Mandy, hence my comments on stewards decisions, though Massa takes the balance of the bad luck outside his control.

I preferred racing long before the Senna days though, when it was just drivers and cars and all the "extras" took no part.

At risk of upsetting US members, we have America to blame for many of the undesirable elements now, safety cars, pit stops and other gimmicky additions, all adopted from their utterly boring racing around oval bowl circuits. I see next year's big changes as possibly making F1 much worse.
.

Hi Flecc
But it is about the team as well after all isn't it? At least Ferrari got the constructors championship eh? Lets hope they get their traffic light system sorted or their lolly pop man dressed as Michelin Man when they are Penelope Pitstopping!

Maybe it was good racing back in the day Flecc but the cars go so much faster now. Without some form of safety contol being put in place the races would result in death most surely. However that doesn't include some of those stupid steward decisions!

Following the death of Ayrton Senna in 1994 (I watched the crash and to be honest put me off following Grand Prix for around 5 years!) they had to step up safety. I certainly wouldn't see a safety car as a gimmicky addition, it is purely there to ensure safety when there is debri/cars on the track and to avoid further collisions especially when the tracks used in the Grand Prix aren't bowl shaped.

I did agree with the ban of Traction control for the 2008 Grand Prix though which was a great move! The driver had to drive the car rather than the car drive the driver

Everything moves on whether it be for better or worse and whether we like it or not, but you could be right about next years changes.

On the bright side, TV's are better now to watch the race on and I think that was a great move in the right direction, you can have your own personal cinema!

 

[flecc]

I suppose it's a matter of balance Mandy. None of us want anyone dead, but these drivers are paid astronomic sums because of the supposed danger and bleat about safety all the time wanting maximum protection. Remember the disgraceful wrecking of the US GP because they were scared of using the Michelin tyres? To me they were shown up as overpaid prima donnas then.

I very much disagree on the US style safety cars. They are necessary on the lunatic fast banked racing bowls in the USA, but in Grand Prix no purpose has ever been shown so it's just a gimmick. No driver was ever killed or seriously injured under the yellow flag system that kept races running, so the safety car has no point and just ruins the racing.

As for Senna's death, what followed was nothing but hysterical reaction. Many great drivers before him had been killed or seriously injured without such knee jerk reactions and spoiling of the sport. I don't accept that Senna's life was any more important than anyone else's, though the reaction and consequences made it so.

I say either take the astronomic pay and provide the spectacle of real racing, or have the safety and boring processional races and get paid normal incomes which would enable many more to take part in motor racing, as manufacturers particularly, giving more competition.

There's a good example of what I mean in Moto GP, real wheel to wheel racing and true excitement for spectators, none of the riders mollycoddled and so grossly overpaid in the way the Grand Pix drivers are.

Racing that has any meaning will always incur deaths and injury, and eliminating those means an end to racing. Watching many of the boring Grand Prix processions of the last few years has been about as exciting as watching the commuter traffic heading into London, and in fact the latter is sometimes more exciting!
.

 

[Rad]

I have no problem with the safety car system but like Flecc I'd much rather see the cars just have one tankful of fuel. My favourite F1 period was probably late 80's early 90's when pit stops just involved tyres. The need to take on fuel, and the pitlane speed limit have really cut the nuts off of F1

 

[flecc]

I have no problem with the safety car system but like Flecc I'd much rather see the cars just have one tankful of fuel. My favourite F1 period was probably late 80's early 90's when pit stops just involved tyres. The need to take on fuel, and the pitlane speed limit have really cut the nuts off of F1

I think thats the essence of this Rad. We all have our preferences on individual elements, but in almost every case we prefer a past way to the present. That to me is a sure indication that the F1 administrators are getting things very wrong in a cumulative way.

Another indicator is the falling TV audience that meant ITV didn't bother to fight to keep it, letting the BBC take it back quite cheaply for next year.

However, don't you think it unfair that a driver who has worked hard to build a lead has it taken away by a safety car simply because someone else has fouled up? That and the boring Mercedes led procession is why I object to it, especially since the yellow flag system always worked in the past and didn't suffer those afflictions.
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[Phil the drill]

There's a good example of what I mean in Moto GP, real wheel to wheel racing and true excitement for spectators, none of the riders mollycoddled and so grossly overpaid in the way the Grand Pix drivers are.
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Couldn't agree more. I rarely watch Grand Prix nowadays, its just so boring. First off the grid stays in the lead (unless the pit crew fouls up, or they breakdown) very occaisional overtakes, what a yawn!

Moto GP IS FANTASTIC . Great spectacle. The Valentino Rossi / Casy Stoner battles are epic, as is the fact that, dominant as they are there are, others have the capacity to suddenly appear almost from nowhere to snatch titles off them (Pedrosa, etc.). That's my main 'watch' and it'll take a major overhaul of the system to get me into regular F1 spectatorship again!

Phil

 

[flecc]

Absolutely Phil, and I think that Moto GP is occupied by nicer people overall too. Just straight forward fair racing with respect for and trust in each other and not a mention of stewards, safety cars etc.

That's real sport practiced by sportsmen who aren't afraid of getting hurt.
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[Rad]

I think thats the essence of this Rad. We all have our preferences on individual elements, but in almost every case we prefer a past way to the present. That to me is a sure indication that the F1 administrators are getting things very wrong in a cumulative way.

I think a large factor in preferred era is when you really got into watching motor racing. For me it was the late 80's-Early 90's, for yourself obviously earlier. From my own point of view F1 is not as exciting as it used to be. Even the pitstops used to add to the tension back then. Nowadays drivers are stationery for 25-30 seconds which is far too long and has changed the complexion and pace of F1 for the worse.

Another indicator is the falling TV audience that meant ITV didn't bother to fight to keep it, letting the BBC take it back quite cheaply for next year.

Hopefully the BBC will sort out the coverage. ITV bought their's in from the country of origin and sometimes it was absolutely woeful. I want to see the racing. Not the leader driving around an empty track.

However, don't you think it unfair that a driver who has worked hard to build a lead has it taken away by a safety car simply because someone else has fouled up? That and the boring Mercedes led procession is why I object to it, especially since the yellow flag system always worked in the past and didn't suffer those afflictions.
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You have a point about the Lead cars advantage being cancelled by the safety car, but then it does lead to more tension at the restart. Is the leader going to be able to hold the others off? Will someone try something cheeky? Will Mark Weber crash?

I don't know for definite but would assume that the safety car was bought in because drivers were obeying the letter, if not the spirit of the yellow flag rule and creating unsafe circumstances by pushing perhaps a bit too far?

 

[Rad]

Moto GP IS FANTASTIC . Great spectacle. The Valentino Rossi / Casy Stoner battles are epic, as is the fact that, dominant as they are there are, others have the capacity to suddenly appear almost from nowhere to snatch titles off them (Pedrosa, etc.). That's my main 'watch' and it'll take a major overhaul of the system to get me into regular F1 spectatorship again!

Phil

See I really can't get into Moto GP. For me it's similar to F1 but with even less action.
British Super Bikes on the other hand, is so much fun to watch and you really don't know who's going to take the flag. Shane Byrne dominated for much of the season but some of the lads around him really took the races to him. Plus, like Flecc mentions about the MotoGP crowd, you feel there's a real sense of bonhomie among the competitors.

 

[flecc]

I don't know for definite but would assume that the safety car was bought in because drivers were obeying the letter, if not the spirit of the yellow flag rule and creating unsafe circumstances by pushing perhaps a bit too far?

No reason was ever expressed to my knowledge, and the safety car seemed to brought in precisely to do what you mentioned, close up the cars to try and create better racing and stop processions. It didn't work and was nothing to do with safety since the yellow flags worked ok. What they don't seem to realise is that it's their excess of regulation which has progressively ruined the sport.

When it was much more of "anything goes" with just engine size limited, manufacturers could use all manner of ways to make their cars competitive and that naturally lead to close racing. Now it's ridiculous with every tiny dimension ruled upon to the millimetre, leaving no flexibility. Where manufacturers with a lesser engine could make up for it with design creativity elsewhere in the past, they now often find themselves completely blocked by a vast list of complex rules about every detail on the car.
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[Mandy]

Still love F1

Hi Guys

Yes I concede some good points have been raised regarding F1 but Moto GP doesn't float my boat but hey, I am a girly! I guess F1 shouldn't really? lol!
Anyway, not many can beat Rossi, yikes!!

I agree that the safety car takes away the advantage of the leader car and do feel that should be addressed somehow?

I still feel that F1 is worth watching and the gripping end to the Brazilian Grand Prix was proof of that and there are still many fans out there.

I think the commentating can be a bit naff and hilariuos especially when they get a little over excited . My favourite naff statements on that last race were: "if this were the end of the race Lewis would win the title" Or "if this were the end of the race Lewis wouldn't win the title" Booooring, now that really got up my nose!

Now Murray Walker: 1949-2001!! Now that was a commentator and a half! LOL! How did he last that long bless him, an F1 legend!
Some Favourites:
"This is an interesting circuit because it has inclines, and not just up, but down as well." LOL! My Fave "There's a fiery glow coming from the back of the Ferrari James: No Murray, that's his rear safety light" and of course 'Unless I'm very much mistaken....I AM very much mistaken!'
I was born 10 years after he started but caught up with him on his latter years and he was funny.

Check out this link: Very funny

The Murray Walker Quotes Page

Oh well I still love F1 regardless of it's faults and there is still fans and exciting driving/crashes to be seen but nowadays drivers don't seem to die.
Suits me sir

Regards

 

[flecc]

I think the commentating can be a bit naff and hilariuos especially when they get a little over excited .

I've done one thing that shows that up Mandy, which you could try. During a completely boring stage when the cars are circling well apart and nothing's happening, mute the sound for a short while.

Then turn on and hear the commentators babbling away excitedly and it really emphasises how stupid they sound.

P.S. Murray Walker was originally a motorcycle racer and that was his first love, not driving cars.
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[Mandy]

I've done one thing that shows that up Mandy, which you could try. During a completely boring stage when the cars are circling well apart and nothing's happening, mute the sound for a short while.

Then turn on and hear the commentators babbling away excitedly and it really emphasises how stupid they sound.

P.S. Murray Walker was originally a motorcycle racer and that was his first love, not driving cars.
.

LOL! I think they feel that they have to drivel on regardless and your right it is in the most boring stages of a race that it's worse!
Then when something interesting happens they completely muck it up and get a bit confused, very funny.
I couldn't mute it Flecc, I find it quite funny and annoying all at the same time

Yes I know he started off in motorcycle racing and that is maybe what made him get so confused in the latter years with F1. He was thinking 2 wheels and not 4

 

[Rad]

LOL! I think they feel that they have to drivel on regardless and your right it is in the most boring stages of a race that it's worse!
Then when something interesting happens they completely muck it up and get a bit confused, very funny.
I couldn't mute it Flecc, I find it quite funny and annoying all at the same time

Yes I know he started off in motorcycle racing and that is maybe what made him get so confused in the latter years with F1. He was thinking 2 wheels and not 4

Murray is quite rightly a legend. His enthusiasm was infectious and his bloopers hilarious. His partnership with James Hunt was incredibly entertaining. Such a shame he (Hunt) died so young.

I've a lot of time for Martin Brundle as a commentator but James Allen gets right on my wick. I find the torrent of trivial pap that falls out of his mouth incredibly offensive. Hopefully the beeb won't be using him when their coverage starts, but I will be sad if Brundle goes.

 

[Mandy]

Murray is quite rightly a legend. His enthusiasm was infectious and his bloopers hilarious. His partnership with James Hunt was incredibly entertaining. Such a shame he (Hunt) died so young.

I've a lot of time for Martin Brundle as a commentator but James Allen gets right on my wick. I find the torrent of trivial pap that falls out of his mouth incredibly offensive. Hopefully the beeb won't be using him when their coverage starts, but I will be sad if Brundle goes.

Hi Rad

Yes he is a legend in his own right, bless him.

I agree about James, he got right up my nose! Hopefully Martin will stay and hopefully the beeb will give better coverage also as can't be doing with camera on board the leading car there is so much more to look at than that