Good value for money?

[Croxden]

Recent posts have discussed ebikes for consideration and of course the purchase price comes into the equation.

I know my bike was expensive but I thought it value for money and what I wanted, I could afford it so I had it and it's great.


The boyfriend of one of my daughters has just bought a Triumph Tiger, a lovely bike, more comfortable than mine and a bit better on the hills.


But what am I on about? My bike today is about £5,000.00 the Triumph is just over £8,000.00. There is no comparison, the engineering in the motorbike far exceeds the ebike so why is there such a difference in the retail price?

I'm beginning to think we are being ripped off. Just compare the complexity of the motorbike, the time to assemble, cost of delivery and profit margins, something doesn't add up.


I'm not having a motorbike so don't go there.

 

[flecc]

Market size plays a part, few e-bikes can remotely compare with motorcycle sales volumes.

 

[trex]

I suspect it's down to volume.
mind you, most e-bikes don't cost as much as yours.
What bothers me more is not the buying price but the depreciation per mile, cheaper for cars than for ebikes.

 

[Gringo]

And your 5K was a pedelec, I was down Phil Corley cycles a few years back (8) I'd popped in for a few bits whilst riding my nearly new XJR1300,
Phil was outside bouncing up & down on his own newly built DH bike. We were chatting away about this & that and I asked how much his was, he said he'd built it up and spent 4,500 (trade). That's stuck in my mind since then because my shiny XJR1300 rocket ship cost less & 18 months later, I sold it for the same money I'd spent buying it.
There's no sense in the world.
I've hardly ever lost money on motorcycles having owned at least 50, but when it comes to peddle bikes, it's a bottomless pit.
Knowing that before you splash the cash makes you think long and hard to be sure your buying the right model to suite your needs/desires.

Bottom line, if your happy with you choice who cares what someone else spends on there hobby, I don't

 

[Daz Marshall]

I was thinking this the other day, I could get a decent second hand R6 or maybe even a R1 (or a car) for the same price of the ebike I'm thinking of. Scary thought but then we're never to burn many calories on a motorcycle.

Then again how much are electric or hybrid cars - it's those flipping batteries isn't it.

 

[oldtom]

Batteries are undoubtedly expensive but the modern ones last a long time in normal use. I suspect though, that many ebikers are riding around with batteries of capacity way beyond their needs.

A battery of such capacity as might provide 60+ miles seems to me an expensive proposition if the rider never travels more than 20 or 30 miles in a trip. In those cases where there is a cheaper option which would suffice, a sizeable part of the initial outlay can be saved. Also, in some cases, there is a little bit of a weight saving.

While I know there are some who inform us that they travel north of 30 miles every day in their commute, those people are as rare as hens' teeth. The reality for most ebikers, I would suggest, is single trips of between a couple miles up to perhaps 25 miles with the majority being much less than 25. Most ebike usage is leisure activity for older and/or infirm folks and they are highly unlikely to venture too far from safety/home/caravan or whatever.

All things considered, in today's ebike market, I reckon the value for money bikes are those offered by the likes of Woosh, Kudos and other low-cost suppliers who provide showroom facilities and offer test-rides. For those with deep pockets, they can buy the grossly overpriced stuff from the 'premium' brand names but they certainly won't be getting value for money.

Given that even the cheapest of ebikes can do 90%+ of what those 'premium' bikes can do, those who splash out to the tune of several thousand pounds are doing so, simply because they can. In that regard, the bike market is developing along similar lines to the UK car market.

The question in the thread title was 'Value for money?' so when you move beyond the off-the-shelf stuff and look at the prices of some really nice bikes from the major, online suppliers, then source an appropriate kit, those high-end, ready-made ebikes costing several thousand pounds really do seem poor VFM. The support aspect really isn't as big a consideration as ebike dealers would have us believe as all the mechanical elements of any bike can be repaired/swapped/upgraded by any decent bike shop and the kit suppliers' support these days is generally very good anyway.

Going back to batteries, I find it astonishing that there is such a disparity in price between similar capacity units from the big brands and those supplied by the likes of Woosh and Kudos, not to mention the internet sources. For me, the bottom line and the answer to the question is that relatively speaking, those people looking for value for money in the ebike market will find it towards the budget end and most certainly not among those bikes with price tags resembling telephone numbers.

Tom

 

[flecc]

Going back to batteries, I find it astonishing that there is such a disparity in price between similar capacity units from the big brands and those supplied by the likes of Woosh and Kudos, not to mention the internet sources.

Looking at the two ends of the scale for 36 volt batteries from two reasonable suppliers and two outrageous ones, without buying from the far East:

Prices per Watt Hour:

Whoosh £0.58 (36v 15ah)

eZee £0.79 to £0.83 (36v 21ah and 15ah)

BikeTec Flyer £1.77 (36v 18ah)

BionX £3.04 (36v 9.6ah)

The two shocks there are the BikeTec price for Panasonic's battery at £1145 and the BionX price for that small battery at £1050.
.

 

[trex]

big part of the problem is volume + distribution system. You get better VFM for higher volume goods bought on the net. Woosh and Ezee sell mainly on the net, so they are cheaper.
God knows what people see in BionX.

 

[JohnCade]

Is there a difference in the power supplied between a 9ah battery and a 15ah one?

I perhaps naively thought that the only difference would be in range. But I'm wondering if the bigger battery gives more hill climbing power as well.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Assuming two batteries with the same cells, but one with 50% more cells.

You get more power with the 15aH one for two reasons. Firstly the voltage doesn't reduce so quickly, so apart from when it's straight off the charger, its voltage will be higher. Secondly, the voltage sag will be higher on the 10ah one because the current per cell would be higher. Put the two together and the voltage of the 15aH one will be on average about 10% higher, so it will give 10% more power and 10% more maximum speed if the speed isn't limited.

When the batteries have different types of cells it gets more complicated. A LiFePO4 battery will maintain a higher voltage than a LMNC one most of the time. Some high-discharge rate cells don't sag so much.

 

[JohnCade]

Right, thanks.