Go Swissdrive + Trek 8.5

[mr_chompers]

Several months ago I bought a Trek 8.5 bicycle which I have been using for my 12 km hilly commute here in windy Iceland. I have been very pleased, but the trip takes around 35 minutes, and if there is any wind, the trip can be miserable, especially to do 2x every day 5x a week.

Just yesterday, the electric bicycle shop here just got their complete Go Swissdrive kits in, and I took delivery of mine and they put it on my bike. Rather than the OEM battery, they replaced it with a 36v 12.4A battery, claiming the OEM version (which is I think only 10A) had some problems, and they sourced a nicer version, with panasonic cells. I have not yet made the commute, just tested it at lunch today, but I will update with more thoughts later.

I had a question, and that is, the Swissdrive is limited to assisting to 25kmh, but from what I can see, the only way it knows this speed is the wheel diameter setting. If I were to tell the bike the wheel is much smaller than it actually is, would I get a higher top speed of assist? I realize that would make the speedometer aspect and odometer inaccurate, but if I got a much higher top speed, would be worth it to me.

So far, I really like how compact and clean the kit is. There are only 3 pieces, the motor, the battery, and the control unit (which is just beautiful). The cord connects using magenetics, like a macbook connector, so it is waterproof, and I like how it locks into the frame. I will post photos soon.

 

[kemi]

I had a question, and that is, the Swissdrive is limited to assisting to 25kmh, but from what I can see, the only way it knows this speed is the wheel diameter setting. If I were to tell the bike the wheel is much smaller than it actually is, would I get a higher top speed of assist? I realize that would make the speedometer aspect and odometer inaccurate, but if I got a much higher top speed, would be worth it to me.

I have a June 2011 version of this wheel. In the wheel there is a computer that keeps track of the speed and only the dealer or the factory has access to it. One of its settings are circumference and in my case it was already preset to a 28" wheel. The only reason I know this, is because it was written on the wheel. You can not change this value from the computer on the handlebar, although it also has a setting called circumference. On my wheel there is a service port on the non drive side and I have removed the cover. There was no dip switches or otherwise that I could tamper with. Went to my dealer to hear about the possibility of a software upgrade, but was redirected to the distributor and so far I haven't received any help. In my case this wheel was fine if you keep under 25 Km/h, but if you try to go above it turns into a stationary trainer that also happens to be moving. As far as I know, nobody has had any luck with breaking the speed limit enforced by the wheel computer. See this thread to read about the troubles I have had with my version of the wheel :http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/14452-cube-epo-2011-software-update-worth.html

 

[mr_chompers]

I read that thread actually, thanks for posting! I do not know if I quite feel like it is a brick wall. I do feel some resistance, but on flats or any kind of downhill I was able to clear 32kmh. I like bicycling for the workout, and I was actually worried about missing out on some of that with this electric kit, but the resistance I feel over 28.7kmh still gives some nice exercise. I got it mainly to cut down on the time of my commute, which brings me to the good news:

My mini review: (scroll to the end for my review of the Trek 8.5 alone)

Trek 8.5 without Swissdrive, the 12.5km commute took me 35 minutes, with swiss drive, 24 min. This was on a day without wind, and when the wind is right in my face, I am more like 40 minutes or more for the commute, so I am really looking forward to this assistance. The motor is silent, as in, I cannot hear anything at all other than the friction of the wheel on the road which was present on the bare bike too. The bike is a bit heavier to lift now, but on the road I do not notice the weight difference, and the bike still feels maneuverable and balanced.

The power is a real kick! I was smiling every time I needed to accelerate or met a hill. I like the gradual fade out, and the only time I notice anything is when it tapers off, if I am hovering around the cutoff point of 28.7 km-ish I can feel it come on and drop off sometimes in succession. It was noticeable yesterday, but I have a feeling I will get used to it quickly.

I had a Kalkhoff Pro Connect back in 2009, for a 47km commute from Cologne to Dusseldorf, and I like this Trek/Swissdrive setup much more. The disc brakes are more powerful, the suspension fork makes a smoother ride, and the power from the motor is nicer, however I did like the complete freewheel effect of the kalkhoff after power dropped off. I do hope the manufacturer and dealers come up with a solution to this.

The computer is awesome! I love the speedometer, the layout, the nice back light, and the ease of changing settings. A real upgrade from the Kalkhoff's LEDs. Battery life seems that I will only have to charge twice a week, which is nice. With the Kalkhoff and longer distance, I had to charge after every trip, meaning I had to take the massive charger with me to work.

I also feel like with the Kalkhoff, I had to change my pedaling style. I spent a long time in my teens upping my cadence to have an efficient riding style, and the Kalkhoff encouraged gear grinding. The SwissDrive works in a way that I have not had to change my pedaling from the unpowered bike in order to get the assist. I like this a lot. I have been using it in +2 mode, out of +3.





My review of the Trek 8.5:

By videogamemaker from Reykjavik, Iceland on 1/29/2013
Your Rating: 5 stars
Headline: Commuting is fun again

Pros : Remote Lock Out On Fork, Great Paintjob 2012, Good Derailleurs, Powerful Brakes, Smooth shifting
Cons : No Front Fender Mount, Horrid Saddle
Best Uses : Commuting In Hilly Area

I bought my first bike at 15, a Trek 540 touring frame. It served me well for tens of thousands of miles, but after moving to Iceland, the roads and terrain is just not as ideal for a touring bike. I went to look at frames at my local dealer and fell in love with the 2012 8.5 DS. The lava black paintjob is gorgeous, I had always wanted disc brakes, and while I´d never had a suspension fork, the remote lockout seemed useful. I even got a 20% discount since they wanted to clear their 2012 models to make way for 2013.

I have had it for 2 weeks now, doing my 12 km commute each way (7.5 miles) several times. My main complaint is the saddle. It is small and light and matches the look of the bike, but my butt is sore, and I am a regular rider, so it is not weak leg strength. The hilly and bumpy terrain, despite being all paved, has really made me appreciate the strong brakes and the suspension fork. I love being able to lock it when I stand to climb hills. The shifting is smooth and precise, and I like how tight the long arm derailleur keeps the chain.

I have added front and rear lights, full fenders (which required zip ties in the front) and nail tires for the icy roads here in Iceland. I love commuting and how safe it feels now. The gearing is nice and spread out so I can climb hills or really gain speed on the downhills. The front fork has only a top screw for a fender, which is not a very secure mount. Having fender bolts on the end of the fork would have been ideal, but zip ties have secured it well. Now I arrive dry, the bike is not covered in gunk, and I am sure cars can see me. I have also switched the quick release skewers on wheels and seat to a proprietary locking skewer that requires a special head to unscrew, making me feel safe when putting the lock only through the front wheel. I know the saddle and frame will be there when I get back.

Normally I like closer to a 60cm/22inch frame, but on this model, the 19inch feels great. I am 190cm tall, and on a road bike I use a 58cm frame. It might also be my aging, 31 now, but I much prefer the wide handlebars of this hybrid to the rams-horn bars of the touring bike now.

 

[mr_chompers]

So, in the instruction manual: http://www.go-swissdrive.com/fileadmin/user_upload/GO_SwissDrive_EN_2012-04-26_Web.pdf

It shows how to set the wheel circumference, LCD brightness, and contrast, but if you keep clicking through, there are more options, Miles/Km, and then ROFF which is set to 600, ECnt 0, Err 0, bErr 0, and bSAF 0.

Anyone know what these terms might refer to? I want to experiment with a few to see if I can kill the regen aspect over 28.7kmh.

 

[AlMel]

Thanks for your review. I’m trying to imagine what it’s like cycling there. I rather like the idea of it though presumably it’s not a year round activity. Did I read you right: bikes actually get stolen in Reykjavik? Where do they get taken?

 

[mr_chompers]

Messing around with it more, none of the settings other than ROFF can be changed. ROFF was at 600 by default, and can only go down to 60, but apparently can go up to infinity (stopped at 10,000 ish) Wondering if R stands for rotation somehow.

Bikes do get stolen in Rvk, and people just use them in the hopes the owner does not ever see them, I guess.

I do actually bike year round. I have nail tires I switch out for the winter months.

 

[KirstinS]

Very interesting post - user experience from this system is thin in the ground compared to ubiquitous bafang motors

The only help i think I can give is - don't charge twice a week. Lithiums like to be topped up. Every day(ish) is probably best way to maintain battery health

 

[mr_chompers]

Thanks for the advice KirstinS.

I am actually not so sure now there is regen kicking in. I was able to get up to 44 kmh this morning going downhill, and I seem to be in the same gearing I remember at the same spots before adding the kit (when above 30kmh). I think maybe I was feeling how much more difficult it is to pedal unassisted after the power assist fades out.

Also I had thought the power levels were 1-3, but it is actually 1-5, so I used level 4 this morning and cut a full minute off the commute. Really fun to pedal up hills at 28kmh!

 

[mr_chompers]

Thanks to advice from kemi in his Cube Epo thread, my Swissdrive does not have this regen function, which is what I suspected actually. When I get up to 30kmh+ turning the computer down to 0, or even off, has no effect. What I was thinking was resistance before, was just how difficult it feels to pedal normally after the power assist is gone.

I also put it into the negatives to really feel how the resistance feels, and even at -1, the feeling of drag was unmistakable, it is definitely not doing that in the positive numbers.

Seems like buying the Swissdrive kit itself is the way to go, though I am not sure who stocks it other than Rafhjól here in Iceland.

 

[mr_chompers]

Another update. So the bike with swissdrive motor, battery, fenders, lights and a heavy duty lock are 24 kilos/ 52 lbs. Not bad for a kit.

I normally bike on +2 and this gets me to and from work with ease. I feel like my usage is heavier than most with the hills here, there are 3 distinct hills between me and work, each of which was a hassle and I stood to power up them before on the non-powered bike. If I were back in Germany or even in the states, I think my mileage would be way higher. The longest I have gone on one charge is 36 kilometers (22 miles) and I still had a bar of battery left (out of 5 bars) using +2 the whole way. Please keep in mind I have an upgraded battery from the stock Swissdrive kit, it is 36v and 12.4A, using Lithium Ion cells from Samsung.

I think the shop made a mistake and put a wheel programmed for a 26" tire on my 700cc bike, cause it helps me up to 28km an hour. Being able to go up those 3 hills at the full 28km without effort or standing is just awesome.

I tend not to use the regenerative function,despite all 3 downhills being good spots, because I have to press the minus button 3x to get to -1 regen, and 4x to get to -2, then again that many times to get back up to +2 power assist. I wish I could somehow hook up the regen to the brakes or pedaling backwards somehow, or even just 35km an hour as I never really pedal up higher than that, only reach it on the downhills.

So far I am super happy with this purchase, plenty of power, the bike feels super nimble and not overly heavy, the LCD is probably the best display I have seen from any electric bike (except maybe the Neo range) and I am really glad I paired a great kit with a great bike, rather than buying a premade, because this trek has much nicer components than I see on most bikes.

My cost all in was 340,000 ISK for bike (140k) and kit (200k including installation). This is about 2,900 USD, 1,900 british pounds, or 2,240 euro. The bikes I could get for this price range even if they were sold in Iceland are not that appealing to me and I would have had to spend more. The only electric bikes available here are 2 types of winoras with bosch drives, Sirus (not read much on these), The Trek valencia, and some of the lower end Kalkhoffs.

Only last thing I want to do is maybe take my android tablet with me with a GPS and altitude change tracker to see how much elevation change I am going through.

 

[cavaleri71]

 

[flecc]

however I did like the complete freewheel effect of the kalkhoff after power dropped off. I do hope the manufacturer and dealers come up with a solution to this.

I'm afraid there never can be a freewheeling solution for the SwissDrive, as a direct drive the motor is part of the wheel and always engaged. Above drive speed it starts to become a generator so in that role will always have drag.

The Kalkhoff has a freewheel that operates as soon as road speed rises above motor engagement speed, so no drag then.
.