Giant bikes. Opinions on these two?

[Jamie82]

he is still looking at the Giants.

I thought they have a Yamaha pw-x motor?

 

[Woosh]

I thought they have a Yamaha pw-x motor?

no, the Giants are fitted with Giant SyncDrive Pro 80Nm.
It's no match for Bosch CX or even the Bafang G33.350 and you'd need more than the CX.

 

[Blackbird]

no, the Giants are fitted with Giant SyncDrive Pro 80Nm.
It's no match for Bosch CX or even the Bafang G33.350 and you'd need more than the CX.

Why would he need more than the CX? I'm 127 kg, ride a CX hardtail and i never feel underpowered. If anything, turbo is usually overkill, especially with the 25km cutoff.

 

[Woosh]

Why would he need more than the CX? I'm 127 kg, ride a CX hardtail and i never feel underpowered. If anything, turbo is usually overkill, especially with the 25km cutoff.

he needs help to go up to Hadleigh Castle, it's steep.
The CX is perfect for 15st going up to Hadleigh Castle.
He weighs more than that.

Going back a few hundred years:

 

[Blackbird]

Well you are way more seasond in Ebike lore than me so i will take your word for it. For me the 42t on the back and the motor helped me get up some steep bits. Then again i live in the north of the Netherlands were hills are nothing more than a vague memory.

But that effectively rules out the factory mid drive bikes right? And since the CX is a bit of a power hog (250w yeah right ) you'd need something like a 500w i'd think?

 

[GLJoe]

no, the Giants are fitted with Giant SyncDrive Pro 80Nm..

Giant SyncDrive is just their name for the rebadged yamaha motor.
And they have PW and PWX versions.
Batteries are custom Giant though.
They claim they have their own custom and tweaked controller, but I'm a little dubious on that one. I can't tell the difference!

 

[Jamie82]

Iwas very impressed with the Yamaha pw on the haibike sduro hardseven 1.0. I flew up Leigh hill. I understand it may not get me up every hill out there but I thought it was brilliant.90% of my riding will be belfairs woods as I'm right next to the entrance

 

[Woosh]

Well you are way more seasond in Ebike lore than me so i will take your word for it. For me the 42t on the back and the motor helped me get up some steep bits. Then again i live in the north of the Netherlands were hills are nothing more than a vague memory.

But that effectively rules out the factory mid drive bikes right? And since the CX is a bit of a power hog (250w yeah right ) you'd need something like a 500w i'd think?

he'll have to make do with what is on offer, and as you said, he can always get a new cassette for his bike and climb up a bit more slowly.
Nevertheless, he should aim for a strong motor, strong frame and good shocks.

 

[Woosh]

Giant SyncDrive is just their name for the rebadged yamaha motor.
And they have PW and PWX versions.
Batteries are custom Giant though.
They claim they have their own custom and tweaked controller, but I'm a little dubious on that one. I can't tell the difference!

it's the 80NM torque figure that they quoted.
Not very good when you can find many motors with stronger torque.

 

[Jamie82]

no, the Giants are fitted with Giant SyncDrive Pro 80Nm.
It's no match for Bosch CX or even the Bafang G33.350 and you'd need more than the CX.

Bosch cx or Yamaha pw then for climbing?

 

[Woosh]

Bosch cx or Yamaha pw then for climbing?

they have about the same pulling power.
You need to ride them to see which one you like,

 

[Blackbird]

it's the 80NM torque figure that they quoted.
Not very good when you can find many motors with stronger torque.

I think the torque figures are quite confusing, at what rpm are they? What cadence range? Is it at the crank or the rear wheel? In what gear?

Makes it hard to compare systems. And you cannot compare hub and mid motor figures at all it seems, for instance the Stromer st2 has 35nm, but everyone comments on how strong it is.

Seems like the industry needs to get a standard definition.

 

[Jamie82]

they have about the same pulling power.
You need to ride them to see which one you like,

Is there any point me viewing the haibikes or trek? You think they're definitely not suitable?

 

[Woosh]

Is there any point me viewing the haibikes or trek? You think they're definitely not suitable?

Yes, they both are good value for money. Once you dismiss conversions, your choice is limited to shop bought and have to make do with bikes that are a bit underpowered for your weight.
We can only debate hypothetically on the merits of one model against another, whereas if you sit on the bike and ride around even just around a couple of blocks, you'll know which one you like best.

 

[Jamie82]

Ok so just to clarify the trek powerfly 5 is probably a better bike over the haibike hardseven 2.0 and 4.0. hopefully they have the trek in Richardson's then I can try both today

 

[chris_n]

it's the 80NM torque figure that they quoted.
Not very good when you can find many motors with stronger torque.

no, the Giants are fitted with Giant SyncDrive Pro 80Nm.
It's no match for Bosch CX or even the Bafang G33.350 and you'd need more than the CX.

Woosh talking crap again, contradicting himself constantly. Bosch CX has 75Nm of torque, GiantSyncDrive Pro aka Yamaha 80Nm. Anything more than the CX / Yamaha is likely illegal, the Bafang quoted certainly is!
This forum has deteriorated into a constant Woosh opinion / sales pitch.

 

[Woosh]

Anything more than the CX Yamaha is likely illegal, the Bafang quoted certainly is!

how so? Where is the illegal bit?
When you weigh 10st and ride a bike with 80NM motor, would you like to swap that motor for one that has 40NM? Now change your weight to 20st, this is the same as riding a bike with 40NM motor. It will still move you from A-to B but the acceleration is halved. There is no law against fitting a 120NM motor into a bike. It's just that demand for this is small, most manufacturers are not interested.

 

[chris_n]

I said likely illegal, i.e. rated higher than 250w like a bbs02 or hd.
I certainly don't disagree with the rest of your last post baring the dubious maths, of course most people even the lighter ones would prefer the extra power.
I doubt there is that is legal that performs significantly better than Bosch, Yamaha, Shimano, Brose etc

 

[Woosh]

I said likely illegal, i.e. rated higher than 250w like a bbs02 or hd.

If you ride on a flat road, limited at 15mph, you are not going to use more than 200W, regardless what the label says. If you climb hills, you are temprarily allowed to exceed 250W for the duration, subject to the same 15mph limitation. It's an issue of labelling. Nominal 250W is just it, nominal. Nothing to do with torque rating.

baring the dubious maths,

you may think that, but the maths help to see things objectively.

I doubt there is that is legal that performs significantly better than Bosch, Yamaha, Shimano, Brose etc

Brose motor seems to climb better than Bosch, Yamaha, Shimano.
Bafang beats that lot on torque.
Continental has one that pumps 100NM.

 

[chris_n]

[QUOTE="Continental has one that pumps 100NM.[/QUOTE]
Not according to their website!
Tech specs 36V
Technical Specifications

• Max. torque: 64Nm
• Power: 250W
• Weight: 3.4kg

• Silent motor with low resistance
• Athletic area of application
• Double chain wheel compatible

48V Revolution
Technical Specifications

• 
  
  Drive system revolution: combination of motor and gearbox in one drive unit
• Automatic and manual gearshift modes
• Power: 250W
• Max torque: 70Nm
• Weight: 6.4 kg
• Crank interface: JIS
• Adjustable cadenz: 40-120

48V Prime
Technical Specifications

• Max. torque: 70Nm
• Power: 250W
• Weight: 3.9kg
• Safety class: IP 65 (dust resistant, hose water protected)
• Crank interface: ISIS
• Resistance-free riding even without motor assistance

Which 250W Bafang them, the mislabled BBS02?
Of course maths helps you see it more clearly but you have to get it right first.