Gazelle or Kalkhoff

[Colin Tate]

I currently have a Kalkhoff Tasman (which is a great bike). However, it is coming up to 3 years old and I'm thinking of replacing it. I'm considering another Kalkhoff or a Gazelle. It seems quite difficult to get opinions on gazelle bikes though. What I want to know is: how easy it is to remove the chain guard? Will the chain guard prevent the chain stretching in any way? My Kalkhoff chain is always stretching and needing attention and I wondered if having a full chain guard will simply be a pain for mechanics or is it very easily removed? I've considered a carbon belt drive over a chain and would be interested to know what people think of that.

I also wondered about the Bosch motors. 50cycles are very convincing about the benefits of the impulse system over the Bosch (ie, torque) though others swear by the reliability of Bosch. I realise I'm opening a can of worms getting into this but if anyone has used both impulse and bosch I'd be interested to hear their thoughts.

Brakes are another issue. My Tasman has hydraulic rim brakes and all bike shops seem to hate working on them. I don't like them either principally because they need changed about every 3-6 months because they've worn down. I think I'd prefer disk brakes next time but the only gazelle I've really seen with them is the CityZen. I'm not sure why they continue to use these rim brakes when they seem so unpopular!

I have found the 'racktime' rear carrier on the Kalkhoff Tasman the best thing since sliced bread. I can easily snap on a basket using the clip it system to go to the supermarket or the allotment and remove it again when I'm finished. However, I don't think the gazelle bikes use this rack? Is that something that could be easily installed on a gazelle bike if I decided to go with them over Kalkhoff?

Finally, what is the hill climbing like on the latest gazelles?

As you can see I'm a bit befuddled by the whole thing. I love the Kalhoffs but I see a lot of them no longer have such an upright riding position as they used to. So any comments/thoughts would be useful! Thanks.

 

[Trevormonty]

Riese & Mullier have some excellent bosch bikes with belt drive. Not cheap but very well built.

 

[RobF]

Gazelles are also very well made and finished.

Where in the country are you?

Cycle Heaven in York keep a good range of Gazelles - worth a visit.

A Gazelle would give you the upright riding position you seek.

If you want a Dutch-style bike, it makes sense to buy a Dutch bike.

A full chain guard will increase chain life dramatically.

I would go as far as to say you will do well to wear out a chain running in a full guard.

The rack from your Tasman may fit, but that's relatively minor - there's always ways and means of attaching baskets and the like.

If that is a big concern, Riese and Muller factory fit Snap-it Racktime racks - same as your Tasman.

 

[E-Wheels]

I currently have a Kalkhoff Tasman (which is a great bike). However, it is coming up to 3 years old and I'm thinking of replacing it. I'm considering another Kalkhoff or a Gazelle. It seems quite difficult to get opinions on gazelle bikes though. What I want to know is: how easy it is to remove the chain guard? Will the chain guard prevent the chain stretching in any way? My Kalkhoff chain is always stretching and needing attention and I wondered if having a full chain guard will simply be a pain for mechanics or is it very easily removed? I've considered a carbon belt drive over a chain and would be interested to know what people think of that.

I also wondered about the Bosch motors. 50cycles are very convincing about the benefits of the impulse system over the Bosch (ie, torque) though others swear by the reliability of Bosch. I realise I'm opening a can of worms getting into this but if anyone has used both impulse and bosch I'd be interested to hear their thoughts.

Brakes are another issue. My Tasman has hydraulic rim brakes and all bike shops seem to hate working on them. I don't like them either principally because they need changed about every 3-6 months because they've worn down. I think I'd prefer disk brakes next time but the only gazelle I've really seen with them is the CityZen. I'm not sure why they continue to use these rim brakes when they seem so unpopular!

I have found the 'racktime' rear carrier on the Kalkhoff Tasman the best thing since sliced bread. I can easily snap on a basket using the clip it system to go to the supermarket or the allotment and remove it again when I'm finished. However, I don't think the gazelle bikes use this rack? Is that something that could be easily installed on a gazelle bike if I decided to go with them over Kalkhoff?

Finally, what is the hill climbing like on the latest gazelles?

As you can see I'm a bit befuddled by the whole thing. I love the Kalhoffs but I see a lot of them no longer have such an upright riding position as they used to. So any comments/thoughts would be useful! Thanks.

What about this Kalkhoff with Bosch drive, carbon belt and upright riding position https://www.kalkhoff-bikes.com/en/bikes/2018/e-bikes/e-city/image-advance-b8.html?tx_dcwproducts_dcwproductsfrontend[familyUID]=242&cHash=a783b5e436747d9e857d6b3f93294c92

 

[Colin Tate]

What about this Kalkhoff with Bosch drive, carbon belt and upright riding position https://www.kalkhoff-bikes.com/en/bikes/2018/e-bikes/e-city/image-advance-b8.html?tx_dcwproducts_dcwproductsfrontend[familyUID]=242&cHash=a783b5e436747d9e857d6b3f93294c92

It's great. I had spotted that one! Pricey though.

 

[Colin Tate]

Gazelles are also very well made and finished.

Where in the country are you?

Cycle Heaven in York keep a good range of Gazelles - worth a visit.

A Gazelle would give you the upright riding position you seek.

If you want a Dutch-style bike, it makes sense to buy a Dutch bike.

A full chain guard will increase chain life dramatically.

I would go as far as to say you will do well to wear out a chain running in a full guard.

The rack from your Tasman may fit, but that's relatively minor - there's always ways and means of attaching baskets and the like.

If that is a big concern, Riese and Muller factory fit Snap-it Racktime racks - same as your Tasman.

That's really interesting. I didn't know a chain guard offered so much protection. How does it stop the chain becoming all loose through stretching as it does on my Kalkhoff?

 

[RobF]

Chains, technically, do not stretch - you cannot stretch steel.

What happens is that due to grit and grime, each link bearing acquires a tiny bit of play.

These tiny amounts of play add up over the length of the chain to give the effect of elongating it - commonly called stretch.

A chain guard prevents grit and grime reaching the chain, thus preventing the bearings wearing and acquiring play.

There will still be a tiny bit of wear, but you could find stories of bikes from the 50s and 60s with fully enclosed chains that ran for decades on their original chain.

The Chainglider on some Riese and Muller bikes is not quite fully enclosed so the chain may wear a tiny bit faster than a fully enclosed chain which I believe some Gazelles have.

You might ask why all hub gear bikes don't have fully enclosed chains.

Marketing is the answer, a fully enclosing chain guard is deemed to look naff, like something your granddad would ride.

The Chainglider is not quite so clunky and looks a bit better.

 

[nemesis]

I currently have a Kalkhoff Tasman (which is a great bike). However, it is coming up to 3 years old and I'm thinking of replacing it. I'm considering another Kalkhoff or a Gazelle. It seems quite difficult to get opinions on gazelle bikes though. What I want to know is: how easy it is to remove the chain guard? Will the chain guard prevent the chain stretching in any way? My Kalkhoff chain is always stretching and needing attention and I wondered if having a full chain guard will simply be a pain for mechanics or is it very easily removed? I've considered a carbon belt drive over a chain and would be interested to know what people think of that.

I also wondered about the Bosch motors. 50cycles are very convincing about the benefits of the impulse system over the Bosch (ie, torque) though others swear by the reliability of Bosch. I realise I'm opening a can of worms getting into this but if anyone has used both impulse and bosch I'd be interested to hear their thoughts.

Brakes are another issue. My Tasman has hydraulic rim brakes and all bike shops seem to hate working on them. I don't like them either principally because they need changed about every 3-6 months because they've worn down. I think I'd prefer disk brakes next time but the only gazelle I've really seen with them is the CityZen. I'm not sure why they continue to use these rim brakes when they seem so unpopular!

I have found the 'racktime' rear carrier on the Kalkhoff Tasman the best thing since sliced bread. I can easily snap on a basket using the clip it system to go to the supermarket or the allotment and remove it again when I'm finished. However, I don't think the gazelle bikes use this rack? Is that something that could be easily installed on a gazelle bike if I decided to go with them over Kalkhoff?

Finally, what is the hill climbing like on the latest gazelles?

As you can see I'm a bit befuddled by the whole thing. I love the Kalhoffs but I see a lot of them no longer have such an upright riding position as they used to. So any comments/thoughts would be useful! Thanks.

This would suit because it has the Bosch motor and is a Kalkhoff.
https://www.rutlandcycling.com/bikes/electric-bikes/kalkhoff-voyager-move-b8-400wh-2018-electric-hybrid-bike-black_385789

 

[flecc]

Adding to Rob's answer, in the trade in the 1950s I used to work on bikes from the 1930s with chaincases that had never been opened and the rear wheel never taken out. Their chains obviously still perfect.

Steel framed, we used frame expanders to open up the rear triangle when replacing a tube or tyre. I sometimes do a similar trick on modern bikes, using muscle:

 

[RobF]

Adding to Rob's answer, in the trade in the 1950s I used to work on bikes from the 1930s with chaincases that had never been opened and the rear wheel never taken out. Their chains obviously still perfect.

Steel framed, we used frame expanders to open up the rear triangle when replacing a tube or tyre. I sometimes do a similar trick on modern bikes, using muscle:

View attachment 23129

Flecc, at the risk of thread drift, I was told some owners ran their enclosed chain bikes with liquid oil in the bottom of the guard.

In other words, the chain ran through a shallow puddle of oil all the time.

Can you confirm if that was so?

 

[Artstu]

Mike Burrows designed a GRP bike with an oil-filled chain case, I don't think it ever reached production, I think this was one of the concepts.

 

[flecc]

Flecc, at the risk of thread drift, I was told some owners ran their enclosed chain bikes with liquid oil in the bottom of the guard.

In other words, the chain ran through a shallow puddle of oil all the time.

Can you confirm if that was so?

Yes, that was the Sunbeam oilbath chaincase, adopted by some other makes. The chain dipped into the oil sump at the bottom of the chainwheel so ran soaked and dripping with oil and never wore out.

The top rear corner of the chaincase was removable to allow some access, but of course wheel removal was made difficult. Ok with steel frame and expanders, but unfortunately not with today's alloy frames.
.

 

[flecc]

Mike Burrows designed a GRP bike with an oil-filled chain case, I don't think it ever reached production, I think this was one of the concepts.

No it didn't go into production, but Mike later marketed his own one with the chaincase also being a single side rear stay, meaning easy wheel/tyre removal car fashion, just like the later GoCycle.

Single side is a Mike Burrows obsession, he designed Giant's Halfway folder:

.

 

[RobF]

No it didn't go into production, but Mike later marketed his own one with the chaincase also being a single side rear stay, meaning easy wheel removal car fashion, just like the later GoCycle.

Single side is a Mike Burrows obsession, he designed Giant's Halfway folder:

.

Very clever, but try and fit a mudguard on it.

 

[Artstu]

No it didn't go into production, but Mike later marketed his own one with the chaincase also being a single side rear stay, meaning easy wheel removal car fashion, just like the later GoCycle.

Single side is a Mike Burrows obsession, he designed Giant's Halfway folder:

.

Yes I remember the Halfway, had a short ride on one and didn't like it at all, very flexible. and yes the Gocycle fits in with the concept very well, forgot about it.

 

[flecc]

Very clever, but try and fit a mudguard on it.

Giant's Halfway was also sold with mudguards and carrier, in fact all those I saw in stock were like that. Obviously they were single side stayed also.
.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Why limit yourself to one of two brands when there's thousands of really nice bikes to choose from?

 

[Rutland Cycling]

It's great. I had spotted that one! Pricey though.

Hey Colin,

There are 2x models at a lower price than the Kalkhoff Image running the Gates Carbon belt drive system, please find below.

https://www.rutlandcycling.com/454938/products/kalkhoff-jubilee-b7-excite-2018-electric-hybrid-step-thru-bike-silver.aspx

https://www.rutlandcycling.com/bikes/electric-bikes/kalkhoff-agattu-excite-b8-2018-electric-step-thru-hybrid-bike-white_385785

 

[Colin Tate]

Hey Colin,

There are 2x models at a lower price than the Kalkhoff Image running the Gates Carbon belt drive system, please find below.

https://www.rutlandcycling.com/454938/products/kalkhoff-jubilee-b7-excite-2018-electric-hybrid-step-thru-bike-silver.aspx

https://www.rutlandcycling.com/bikes/electric-bikes/kalkhoff-agattu-excite-b8-2018-electric-step-thru-hybrid-bike-white_385785

Thanks Rutland Cycling. I like the upright look of both bikes, esp with the belt drive. The only thing I'd prefer is disk brakes. I am really off these hydraulic rim brakes and every bike mechanic I've ever spoken to seems to hate working on them!