Gazelle C7 versus Raleigh Forge

[flecc]

Yes, hub motors can perform on hills just as well as crank drives, but just beware of the lower powered hub motors that Dutch bikes usually still have. They perform poorly on hills.

One person I advised not to buy a Koga because of the hills in his area, finally gave in to it's superb quality and bought it anyway. He emailed me after the ride home from the shop on it, admitting being extremely disappointed with it's lack of ability on the hills of that route.

Bikes the Dutch make for themselves don't need to climb hills, and looks or quality alone don't climb well. For example, when the Sparta Ion was first launched it had no gears with it's weak rear hub direct drive motor, so when it appeared on sale here it was laughed off the market. So they added a derailleur, calling it the Sparta Ion M-gear, but the "M" must have stood for a Dutch mountain since it still couldn't climb with it's weak hub motor. Since then they claim they've upped it's torque, but it would still be trounced by a BPM/CST or the Panasonic and eZee hub motors.
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[Deleted member 4366]

I've tried the Impulse system with the change delay switch. It's a bit better than not having it, but has a long way to go before you can say it solves the problem.

For every problem, there's always something you can do to mitigate it, but it's always best not to have the problem in the first place.

 

[JohnCade]

I've tried the Impulse system with the change delay switch. It's a bit better than not having it, but has a long way to go before you can say it solves the problem.

For every problem, there's always something you can do to mitigate it, but it's always best not to have the problem in the first place.

Everything is a compromise in engineering as in anything else. Hub motors have different compromises.

 

[Cyclezee]

But IMHO the Bafang BPM or Panasonic hub drive cannot be beaten for uphill grunt-remember the 2 bikes that were finalists in the Bristol challenge were both BPM/Panasonic hub drive....the latter was ridden by the KTM director who would have had a choice between Panasonic hub or Bosch crank.
KudosDave

You've never tried a bike with an eZee hub motor then

 

[Kudoscycles]

You've never tried a bike with an eZee hub motor then[

Had a quick look at the ezee site before responding. Is the hub motor in the ezee not a Bafang BPM? It does look similar dimensions.
My comments about BPM or Panasonic was because I am very familiar with those motor types,my comments could equally apply to the ezee motor and there are now other BPM similar motors on show at the last Shanghai show,its more about comparison with the crank drive motors or the early small diameter Dutch style motors.
I have a friend who sells a cheapie step thru bike into the Dutch market,he sells thousands per year,I asked him why he doesnt put some upgrades on his bikes,I mentioned hydraulic brakes or the BPM motor....dont be silly we have no hills in Holland a sewing machine motor would do,as long as it makes a noise, and anyway those extras are more than my profit !!!
KudosDave

 

[flecc]

Had a quick look at the ezee site before responding. Is the hub motor in the ezee not a Bafang BPM? It does look similar dimensions.

Filling in pending his return, no, it's eZee's own hub motor. Years ago they used to use Bafangs with high currents but suffered some unreliability so designed their own more powerful and stronger motor. That was long before the BPM/CST and Panasonic rear hub motors, making then the pioneers of this type and also now the most experienced with them.
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[Deleted member 4366]

Everything is a compromise in engineering as in anything else. Hub motors have different compromises.

The one most people come up with is that you have to give up having to put effort in on your bike.

 

[Cyclezee]

Had a quick look at the ezee site before responding. Is the hub motor in the ezee not a Bafang BPM? It does look similar dimensions.
My comments about BPM or Panasonic was because I am very familiar with those motor types,my comments could equally apply to the ezee motor and there are now other BPM similar motors on show at the last Shanghai show,its more about comparison with the crank drive motors or the early small diameter Dutch style motors.
I have a friend who sells a cheapie step thru bike into the Dutch market,he sells thousands per year,I asked him why he doesnt put some upgrades on his bikes,I mentioned hydraulic brakes or the BPM motor....dont be silly we have no hills in Holland a sewing machine motor would do,as long as it makes a noise, and anyway those extras are more than my profit !!!
KudosDave

Hi Dave,

Apologies for the history lesson although it looks like Flecc has beaten me to it.
eZee started out in Singapore in 2001 then opened their first factory in Shanghai a couple of years later.
Wai Won Ching, CEO of eZee, wasn't satisfied with the quality of the generic Chinese motors, so they designed and have been successfully manufacturing there own hub motors for several years.
They also have their own design of controllers and several other components which you won't find on any other bikes or conversion kits. One of eZee's USPs is their VP battery case and holder which has remained the same since 2005 when they started selling bikes in the UK. People have always been able to get a replacement that fits their old eZee bike. They now have their own FP rear rack and DT downtube batteries that have contollers integrated with the mounting bracket.
The company has a lot of international input from firms like Grin Cyclery in Canada. eZee's biggest markets are Australia, New Zealand, USA and Canada.

I could go on to tell you about the illustrious Wai Won Ching, his passion for electric bikes, the environment and his adventures, but that would take a very long time.

 

[Cyclezee]

Thanks Dave. I'm doing too many things at the same time and losing concentration. Why isn't there a spellchecker for Tapatalk?

From the same guy who used to have a rant if someone didn't adhere to apostrophe rules

 

[flecc]

One of eZee's USPs is their VP battery case and holder which has remained the same since 2005 when they started selling bikes in the UK. People have always been able to get a replacement that fits their old eZee bike.

And if I can be impertinent enough to add another benefit, in consequence the customer with an old eZee model thus automatically gets the latest technology and chemistry each time they replace their battery.

I've twice been a beneficiary of this, each time getting a big improvement in performance and longevity. It's not often that technology we buy gets better with age.
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[Cyclezee]

And if I can be impertinent enough to add another benefit, in consequence the customer with an old eZee model thus automatically gets the latest technology and chemistry each time they replace their battery.

I've twice been a beneficiary of this, each time getting a big improvement in performance and longevity.
.

If that's impertinent Tony, please continue

 

[JohnCade]

The one most people come up with is that you have to give up having to put effort in on your bike.

I had bikes like that for years. We called them motor bikes.

 

[Croxden]

From the same guy who used to have a rant if someone didn't adhere to apostrophe rules

I do remember he said he wasn't bothered about spelling.

 

[martin@onbike]

Hi Juhso and welcome.

Being a big fan of Dutch bikes and having some experience of the Gazelle brand, (still own one), I have no hesitation in saying they are beautiful machines to ride.

If there were no hills in the UK and wind did not exist, I'd actually recommend Gazelle/Batavus/Sparta and my own favourite, Koga. Unfortunately, we do have hills and wind so therefore I'd suggest you only look at models with strong motors such as the Bosch or Impulse drive bikes. That would push up the price somewhat but there are many other very capable machines from a variety of makers which, although not built quite so exquisitely perhaps as the Gazelle, will prove better performers round your local terrain. They may also be cheaper!

I really think you need to try several more bikes before committing yourself to the likes of the Gazelle and Raleigh models you mention. The Edinburgh Bicycle Co-op, for example, sell Giant, EBCO and Koga bikes so you might want to visit one of their stores in order to gain some degree of objectivity. If you don't mind distance buying, there are several suppliers among forum members, none of whom sell rubbish. They need to provide great after-sales service as forum members are a really fickle bunch, quick to whinge about any problems.

Tom

You could always get a Koga with a Bosch motor.....
....or a Koga Ion with 40nm motor instead of the previous 28nm.

http://www.onbike.co.uk/electric-bikes-category/koga-electric-bikes

 

[oldtom]

If that's impertinent Tony, please continue

Publicity like that would cost a fortune elsewhere Aldby so I hope you're looking after the old boy.

Tom

 

[Cyclezee]

Publicity like that would cost a fortune elsewhere Aldby so I hope you're looking after the old boy.

Tom

If it is Flecc that you are referring to Tom, you should know by now that he accepts favours from no one and shows no bias to any particular trade member unlike some and for that I respect him highly.

 

[flecc]

Indeed Tom, despite being sure that you're teasing, I'd add for others that my comment was entirely from experience and coincides with the opinion of other members who have reaped those same battery improvement benefits.
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[Kudoscycles]

If it is Flecc that you are referring to Tom, you should know by now that he accepts favours from no one and shows no bias to any particular trade member unlike some and for that I respect him highly.

So flecc would not 'accept cash for questions'
KudosDave

 

[Jimod]

So flecc would not 'accept cash for questions'
KudosDave

He probably wouldn't. me, however, I've got no scruples. Send me the cash and ask your question.

 

[Cyclezee]

He probably wouldn't. me, however, I've got no scruples. Send me the cash and ask your question.

OK Jimod, if I were to ask if your bike is really powered by Irn Bru, how much would it cost for the answer, I am sure that some will be able to advise on the going rate

Apologies to the OP who must be slightly upset by now that this thread has deviated so far from it's original theme