Gas or electric soldering irons?

soundwave

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thats what i use but i paid 6 quid for it when i got it and 1.5mm :eek:

you will still need flux for the best joints.


or


 
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soundwave

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no flux to much heat good buy 10 quid connector it did work tho :p
 
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Andy-Mat

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One trick that needs to be learned with soldering, is to use a high temperature setting, and go in "fast and accurately" to solder the joints. This puts far less heat into the wiring and the insulation, cause less or even no damage to the insulation.
Use a quality resin cored solder.
Crimps are OK inside a house, but for a bike used in all weathers, you may start to see corrosion under the crimps, causing weird problems.
Whereas with solder and correctly used heat shrink insulation over the join (let it cool first!), no corrosion should be apparent for a great many years.
With soldering, you need to practice, practice and practice. Till perfect.
The same for MIG/TIG/Stick welding......loads of practicing, before working on the final product!
regards
Andy
 
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The two uses are totally different house sparks are immobile once fitted they just sit there.
An ebike suffers all the vibes and rattles a road or off road gives, you want good connections that won't fail and cause a short on an ebike.
House electrics are also running at high voltage which certainly helps flow of power.
 
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GSV3MiaC

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He was a young electrician, said he couldn't solder, then went on and on about the diagnostic equipment he had which shoots 500v through mains wires to find shorted circuits.
I have labels all over my consumer unit saying 'don't do this, check the insulation using 250v max', because lots of equipment, starting with the smoke alarms, will likely fail dismally if you put 500v across them.
 

sjpt

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They should disconnect all appliances from a circuit before testing with 500v. The wiring should be able to stand that , which is the point of the testing.
 
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Andy-Mat

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He was a young electrician, said he couldn't solder, then went on and on about the diagnostic equipment he had which shoots 500v through mains wires to find shorted circuits.
That is an item called a "Megger". It is not used for finding shorts between phase and neutral, which WOULD possibly damage mains voltage equipment, but it is used to find shorts from either phase or neutral to ground. Mostly high resistance shorts, but below 1 Meg Ohm. It is used to check that all insulation is in proper working order. The actual current used is of a low value, but a high voltage.
I was first introduced to the "Wee Megger" during my RN service time in the 1960s and 1970s. Here is a picture of one, and its operating handle, which makes a high value AC voltage for testing insulation, and if you hold the probes, a pretty hefty shock, painful but not dangerous, the Wee version is also of limited maximum voltage, of around 250 volts. It measures the insulation and gives a resistance readout, in a good installation infinity or close.
44345
The company that gave these devices their name is here and their operation and use, if you need further infos, is here:-
Regards
Andy
 
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guerney

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That is an item called a "Megger". It is not used for finding shorts between phase and neutral, which WOULD possibly damage mains voltage equipment, but it is used to find shorts from either phase or neutral to ground. Mostly high resistance shorts, but below 1 Meg Ohm. It is used to check that all insulation is in proper working order. The actual current used is of a low value, but a high voltage.
I was first introduced to the "Wee Megger" during my RN service time in the 1960s and 1970s. Here is a picture of one, and its operating handle, which makes a high value AC voltage for testing insulation, and if you hold the probes, a pretty hefty shock, painful but not dangerous, the Wee version is also of limited maximum voltage, of around 250 volts. It measures the insulation and gives a resistance readout, in a good installation infinity or close.
View attachment 44345
The company that gave these devices their name is here and their operation and use, if you need further infos, is here:-
Regards
Andy
Very interesting. My electrician said that his modern unit could output up to 2000v, he didn't know at what amps. He performed a ground test with it. The unit was a yellow box about 5X10X12 inches with a 4 inch LCD screen on the top, but he was only here for 5 minutes, so I didn't get a good look.
 
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guerney

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will experiment with dissolving rosin flux in isopropol, to apply using a dropper.

i did that and it drys out and goes rock hard again its ok for cables but not pcb work as then a pita to get off.


it is not cheap but makes it so much more easy to work with.

I've ordered some of this:


While wearing a mask (because of Covid, not because I'm robbing the place) I'll raid the local hardware store later for other solder types... I'll get a few different thicknesses of wire while I'm there, to practice soldering on. I WILL LEARN SOLDERING!
 
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guerney

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StuartsProjects

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You expert solderer you... ;)
Its more a case of experience telling me how well decent cored solder should work.

I have bought some 'cheap' cored solder from China in the past, and as soon as I used it, I knew it was not so good, so in the re-cycling it went.

The lead free stuff all seems to be about the same quality as in not so easy to solder wires with. Soldering components to new\clean PCBs is generally OK though.
 
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Andy-Mat

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Very interesting. My electrician said that his modern unit could output up to 2000v, he didn't know at what amps. He performed a ground test with it. The unit was a yellow box about 5X10X12 inches with a 4 inch LCD screen on the top, but he was only here for 5 minutes, so I didn't get a good look.
It is only used for testing ground connections. That is its whole purpose put simply.....Those used on very high voltages, need to test with a higher voltage values, but the current flow in a properly made system is tiny, usually micro amps or less.....
There is a serious misunderstanding of how a Megger works and what it actually does (when correctly used!), at this time on Pedelec.
A megger measures insulation (for safety reasons) as a value of the number of Ohms between either one of the power wires (Phase & Neutral) and the ground wire or frame. With the minimum acceptable value being previously 1 MegOhm, when I last worked in high power.
It is not used to measure between the two power wires as many here seem to believe, as this is most often of a very low Ohm value anyway, would serve no useful purpose known to man, and might damage certain sensitive parts of the equipment.
SO REMEMBER,
NEVER MEASURE BETWEEN THE NEUTRAL AND PHASE WITH A MEGGER!
Also, if there is an insulation breakdown between the neutral and phase, a large current will flow and fuses and breakers will blow......exactly what they are designed to do.
Now it is possible that the frame of a unit may be connected to phase, via a high resistance path, not of a low enough resistance to blow fuses and or breakers, but still be dangerous to a user, as a current flowing say between both arms, or one leg and one arm, that exceeds 30ma., is likely to kill.
That is why there is a further type of breaker, that any sensible person has in his house electric system (I think that at least for any newly built houses it has been a requirement for many years in most countries), that monitors the current in the phase, and compares it to the current in the neutral, and depending upon its design and use, will remove the mains completely within a few milliseconds, if there is any tiny difference. You do still get a shock if you are the "bridge", slightly painful in my experience, but before your heart stops (for a normal healthy person), the power gets automatically removed.
These are so called residual-current device (RCD), or residual-current circuit breaker (RCCB) , and have been around for a great many years now. I installed my own first one in an old house I bought, in 1975. The house was built around 1450, so the title "Old" was fully earned!!
But I hope now that everyone now understands the basic usage of a megger far better, and that when correctly used, it will not damage any equipment that has been correctly designed for mains usage.
regards
Andy
 

BazP

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Which do you use? I have two electric soldering irons - one very old one with one wide tip, and this one which I suspect occasionally switches itself off while I'm trying to solder something:


Are gas soldering irons better? Is there one you'd recommend?

Does anyone use use soldering flux of some sort? If so, which one? I recall flux being used in Metalwork lessons at school, in what seems like lifetimes ago.

Does anyone crimp plus solder connections? Or does that loosen the crimp through metal expansion?

Is wrapping some of the plastic insulation with a bit of damp cloth a good idea, to stop it melting while soldering?
I must have a soldering iron fetish as I’ve just counted 8 irons in my workshop. Three electric, two gas, one hot air, one AA battery pen type and a rod with a pointed block of copper on the end that you had to warm up on a gas ring.
My favourite is the Weller station but the gas or pen types are ok if a company requires the electric ones to be PAT tested.
The secret to soldering is to flux the item to be soldered, then “tin” the iron and keep wiping on a damp soldering sponge then add solder to the iron and bring the solder on the iron to the job. It’s very rare that I have to feed in more wire unless it’s a big area like for instance a Yorkshire fitting where the internal solder hasn’t bubbled out.
This week I repaired a security camera cable that some idiot had cut and just twisted the wires together. I didn’t have my solder with me so used some borrowed lead free stuff. It definitely didn’t want to stick to the iron well so wouldn’t recommend it but it got the job done.
 
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guerney

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The secret to soldering is to flux the item to be soldered, then “tin” the iron
Thank you for your advice. I think my soldering iron was set too hot, the melting point of tin is only 231.9C and the iron was set to 400c - tin solder (with some sort of flux core, I'm using old general purpose "lead free" solder this time - the Weller solder hasn't arrived yet) would just evaporate or ball up and fall off, it wouldn't tin the iron. Seems to behave much better at 250C, coats the iron now. I've just soldered some speaker connectors, and not as badly as usual - they even work. I'll get there, I may be getting better at this... soldering perfection will eventually be mine!

Next, I'm going to practice weaving thicker multi strand copper wire ends together, to solder. This should be good for connecting battery wires to the controller.

...and I've stunk up my home with solder fumes again... :eek:
 
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guerney

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pointed block of copper on the end that you had to warm up on a gas ring.
That's proper old school:

 

Danidl

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That's proper old school:

This is a subject I know a little about .. It takes about 5 minutes to teach, about 2 hours to do adaquately and about 2 months full time to be professional. .. where professional means done so often that you cannot do it badly if you tried. In the older days lead tin solder was used and was very forgiving. With ROSH directives and the replacement of the lead it's a bit harder. The Multicore brand is one of the best for any electrical or electronic purpose. The purpose of the resin is to remove any very minor oxidation which is present on the wire AFTER it has been scraped clean the bit, clean the wires mechanically join the wires put a small blob of solder on the iron ..to wet it and to increase the surface area for contact. This solder is not used to make the joint. .introduce the iron bit to the bottom of the joint and then the solder on the opposite side and away from the iron. You want the solder to flow only after the joint has heated up enough melt it. If the solder is beside the bit, you are not sure that the joint is hot enoug. Then on ce the solder flows, remove the solder and then the iron. The joint will get a shiny silver coating. If the coating is grey the heat was left on to long and new oxidation has happened
 
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