Front Hub Motor

[Johnwat1980]

Hi i was wondering i have purchased 1000w front hub motor and im now questioning how safe its gonna be
i have read a lot of different opinions some saying fine others not, my frame is all steel would like to ask any one with experience on this subject to please share some information i would be very grateful thanks in advance

 

[Bikes4two]

Oh boy - stand by for some hearty discussion on this one. I don't have experience of a front hub motor (yet - building soon though) but from posts by those more knowledgeable on the subject, I suspect that having such power in the front wheel could be troublesome for the inexperienced rider.

I mean, to me it is common sense to use such power judiciously if you are to avoid the wheel skipping away from you.

It would be interesting to know what bike you are using the motor for and what sort of riding will you be doing (and why such a powerful motor?)?

 

[Johnwat1980]

Haha well i would of thought it could be ok with the frame being steel and maybe two torque arms on either side i just fancied a change as i have a number of midrives and rear hubs

 

[sjpt]

Those powerful motors are a problem in lots of ways, and some of these will be worse for front hub versions. The weight on the front hub will be awkward for steering, and the power on the front hub could be an issue unless the controller is set up very carefully; most cheap controllers will allow the motor to give quite a kick on starting.

If it's not too late I'd return the motor and get a legal 250w one. Some people don't even recommend these on the front, but for most riding conditions they are fine.

 

[Johnwat1980]

hmm surely if use it with steel frame and two torque arms it wouldn't skip out i don't really want to return it as it would be expensive and i want to experience the feeling of it maybe i might tinker with it see how it goes

 

[Nealh]

Show us a pic of the fork drop outs.
Steel forks are a plus, you have to make sure the axle is fully seated. The axle is 14mm dia milled to 10mm across the flats so theses flats need to be fully seated against the drop outs, fit the anti rotation washers and torque arms will be needed. Fitted correctly it should be ok.

If you had ali forks then no.

 

[Johnwat1980]

Ok here are my drop outs

 

[Andy-Mat]

Hi i was wondering i have purchased 1000w front hub motor and im now questioning how safe its gonna be
i have read a lot of different opinions some saying fine others not, my frame is all steel would like to ask any one with experience on this subject to please share some information i would be very grateful thanks in advance

I find your question excellent!
I have ridden front and rear hubs, although not one with a 1000w motor, but I did not notice the extra weight at all when steering, and it drove and rode really well. In fact it impressed me so much, it was the reason I bought my first e-bike!
1000w will be illegal in the UK or in fact anywhere in the EU as far as I am aware, especially if you exceed 25KMH, and it may possibly be a tad heavier than the legal (up to) 250w, but I cannot believe that you will notice it after the first few rides, weight wise.
I certainly did not have any problems with the 250w version, in fact it felt just like any e-bike, but possibly for people (women possibly) with weak arms, the 1000w weight may be a problem, but just guessing on that point, I really don't believe it, as the weight will be on the ground, except when lifting the front of the bike for some reason.
The bike I tried out was actually owned by a woman (even!) older than I am, and she got on it in any weather, and all around our area, at about 75 years old then! She never mentioned any problems with weight of the steering, but was totally enamoured with the whole business.....
On some steep slopes with loose dirt, I did find that I had to hop off, as the tyre was scrubbing, but it was not a particularly wide one. A wide tyre (one that will still fit the frame/forks!) will grip better IMHO, and will also act as a sort of sprung suspension, which will give extra comfort.
Front hubs are far easier to repair punctures on than rear hubs, or even mid motors, which is a great advantage for you.
As you have bought it already (if I understood you correctly), why not fit it and try it out for a few weeks, and let us know how you got on! If you really don't like it, sell it and use the money to buy something better, in your view...
What is really good with hubs, the weight is ONLY on the wheel, not on the bike frame, this is a huge advantage for such conversions! The bike does not have to carry extra weight other than the battery itself....Very positive!
Do not let anyone push you in the direction of a mid motor, where the chain has to handle all motor power and all the muscle power, go for a front or rear hub, you will be far happier in the long run, and you will save money over most mid motors!
Best wishes
Andy

 

[Nealh]

Ok here are my drop outs

The pic clarity is poor but looks like they have the lawyers lips so you must make sure the nuts sit and tighten up fully with in the lips, you may have to file the drop outs 2.5 - 3mm deeper.

 

[WheezyRider]

I would not want to put 1000W on the front wheel. It's not so much the weight with steering, it's the loss of grip in turns you have to worry about.

250W on the front wheel is generally ok, so long as you go steady in the wet and in other slippery conditions and always ease the power back in bends. On gravel, front wheel drive is not a lot of fun.

 

[MikeFB]

Can I ask what kit you bought? does it have pas levels or all or nothing?

One of my bikes has a 250w Voilamart all or nothing front hub when using the PAS sensor, although it does take a few revolutions of the pedal to get the motor up and running. I fitted a twist throttle which allows variable power, but got to be careful when pulling away as I can spin the front wheel on loose surfaces. Also I now find I can't change gears without hassle with the damn thing. I've ordered a thumb throttle to combat that bit though.

Basically what I'm getting at is if you have an all or nothing front wheel kit then be prepared for some potentially interesting moments.

 

[WheezyRider]

Can I ask what kit you bought? does it have pas levels or all or nothing?

One of my bikes has a 250w Voilamart all or nothing front hub when using the PAS sensor, although it does take a few revolutions of the pedal to get the motor up and running. I fitted a twist throttle which allows variable power, but got to be careful when pulling away as I can spin the front wheel on loose surfaces. Also I now find I can't change gears without hassle with the damn thing. I've ordered a thumb throttle to combat that bit though.

Basically what I'm getting at is if you have an all or nothing front wheel kit then be prepared for some potentially interesting moments.

Not sure if you meant me or the OP?

I too have the 250W front Voilamart kit, but I only use it with the throttle.

Even though it is a low torque motor, it will easily spin the front wheel on some surfaces.

Hence I replaced it with a rear 250W Voilamart motor.

Gear change is not easy, I have a twist thing inboard of the throttle. But that is still better than the rather randomly attached stalk I used to have on the handlebars that came with the Powabyke.

 

[MikeFB]

Not sure if you meant me or the OP?

I too have the 250W front Voilamart kit, but I only use it with the throttle.

Even though it is a low torque motor, it will easily spin the front wheel on some surfaces.

Hence I replaced it with a rear 250W Voilamart motor.

Gear change is not easy, I have a twist thing inboard of the throttle. But that is still better than the rather randomly attached stalk I used to have on the handlebars that came with the Powabyke.

ah sorry Wheezy, was asking the OP.

However I have to say I'm actually quite impressed with my Voilamart front hub kit. I took it for a short off road ride and apart from a puncture I got, the bike and the motor did very well. I have the double paddle trigger shifters (if you know what I mean) and it's difficult to change up and down with my twist throttle. I had the kit originally on another bike and fitted that bike with shimano TX30 trigger shifters that has a push button for the down shifts and that worked OK. Unfortunately the Trek I have the kit on now has an all in one brake/shifter unit and it works well just not with the twist throttle.

I have ordered a thumb throttle to go on the left side.

 

[WheezyRider]

ah sorry Wheezy, was asking the OP.

However I have to say I'm actually quite impressed with my Voilamart front hub kit. I took it for a short off road ride and apart from a puncture I got, the bike and the motor did very well. I have the double paddle trigger shifters (if you know what I mean) and it's difficult to change up and down with my twist throttle. I had the kit originally on another bike and fitted that bike with shimano TX30 trigger shifters that has a push button for the down shifts and that worked OK. Unfortunately the Trek I have the kit on now has an all in one brake/shifter unit and it works well just not with the twist throttle.

I have ordered a thumb throttle to go on the left side.

No worries

Yes, they are quite nice little motors. They work best with a voltage overclock though, to give more torque and I've run the controllers up to ~70V with a cap mod. More than that, it will need a MOSFET mod. In derestricted mode these motors have no problem propelling a bike along at 30 mph.

However, you are then getting up to the 900 to 1000W power level, and as I've said, really you want that on the back!

 

[Johnwat1980]

Show us a pic of the fork drop outs.
Steel forks are a plus, you have to make sure the axle is fully seated. The axle is 14mm dia milled to 10mm across the flats so theses flats need to be fully seated against the drop outs, fit the anti rotation washers and torque arms will be needed. Fitted correctly it should be ok.

If you had ali forks then no.

Not sure if you meant me or the OP?

I too have the 250W front Voilamart kit, but I only use it with the throttle.

Even though it is a low torque motor, it will easily spin the front wheel on some surfaces.

Hence I replaced it with a rear 250W Voilamart motor.

Gear change is not easy, I have a twist thing inboard of the throttle. But that is still better than the rather randomly attached stalk I used to have on the handlebars that came with the Powabyke.

It was a reasejoy 1000w kit came with very little but i have other parts including pedal assist and lcd screen had to swap out the controller but had 48 volt one lying around too im gonna upload some pics of it also done two rear hub 1000w motor and a 1500w motor

 

[Johnwat1980]

Here it is still wires hanging all over gonna finish it tomorrow NZ take out for a test ride also the two Scott bike conversions 1000w and a 1500w

 

[Johnwat1980]

just a few thoughts ive had the bike out today its defiantly sketchy on certain aspects dont put throttle on when turning lol...especially on loose gravel paths but i also found it great with peddling its like nothing has changed but the extra oomf is there waiting i will be keeping it as a front motor but i just think you have to be sensible with the power i also wonder if i could get more miles out of the battery since peddaling hasnt changed at all and use the motor only when you really need it hmmm time will tell i suppose

 

[MikeFB]

One advantage that no one mentions for a front hub drive, is that many punctures occur on the rear wheel due to the weight pushing down on the rear tyre making it more susceptible to punctures, while the front tyre tends to roll over objects more. This generally means changing tubes or repairing punctures is going to be an easier proposition. May not be a problem for many but still is a small advantage none the less.

 

[WheezyRider]

One advantage that no one mentions for a front hub drive, is that many punctures occur on the rear wheel due to the weight pushing down on the rear tyre making it more susceptible to punctures, while the front tyre tends to roll over objects more. This generally means changing tubes or repairing punctures is going to be an easier proposition. May not be a problem for many but still is a small advantage none the less.

It's also a lot easier to install, the drive train is not affected.

However, my personal preference is still for rear wheel drive and so I fit most puncture resistant tyres I can find.

 

[vfr400]

One advantage that no one mentions for a front hub drive, is that many punctures occur on the rear wheel due to the weight pushing down on the rear tyre making it more susceptible to punctures, while the front tyre tends to roll over objects more. This generally means changing tubes or repairing punctures is going to be an easier proposition. May not be a problem for many but still is a small advantage none the less.

The reason nobody mentions it is because there is no difference. The procedure is the same, whether front or back: Pull off the tyre on one side, pull out the tube, patch it, stuff it back in, pull the tyre on and pump it up. How do you reckon on one being eaier than the other?