From the ashes of the Djavelo rises the Schwinn Continental !

[brigaf]

try ebikeblog.org for a fascinating blog about a comparitive test between a torq and a pre production shwinn

 

[flecc]

Thanks for the link brigaf, my forecast in another thread that the Schwinn was unlikely to be a good hill climber seems to be valid, that rider saying the Schwinn isn't much good on them, and that said in comparison with the Torq! It must be very weak indeed. As I assumed, more about speed on the flat than climbing, similar to the Swizzbee performance.

It (Schwinn) also seems to have some reliability issues, something they'll really need to sort on a bike in that price bracket.
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[Ian]

Thanks for posting the link brigdaf, seems the Schwinn in question is the cheaper GSE rather than the eagerly anticipated continental, seems to be the same electrical spec as the continental though.

The battery on the real schwinn (Middle of the three) looks a lot bigger than the pic on the schwinn website though (lower pic), more like what a 10Ah battery would be expected to look like, also, as flecc has mentioned elsewhere, schwinn have stopped quoting silly weights.

Another anomaly on the website is that the shaft drive continental apparently has an alloy chainwheel.

I'd like to know more about the magical (and probably mythical) material protanium. It seems schwinn make batteries, motors, saddles and carriers from it, it must have remarkable mechanical and electrical properties

 

[Flying Kiwi]

Swizbee performance

As I assumed, more about speed on the flat than climbing, similar to the Swizzbee performance.

I agree that the Swizbee is fast on the flat, you only need to read their claims about speed on their website and have seen how well the only Swizbee did in the 2006 Presteigne event to know that. I'm surprised to read your hill climbing comment - especially for a bike designed by a Swiss/German company! Do you have a link to a reputable source of info about the Swizbee's hill climbing performance please flecc? Was the report based around a user fully conversant with the Swizbee's variable motor assistance controls (additional to the throttle). I think I'd still much rather have a motor drive through the gear train (as on the Swizbee) than a hub motor with permanent gearing.

 

[flecc]

As I've posted before Kiwi, just quoting experience previously read online. I've no idea of the validity of that any more than anyones experience of any other bike. At least they rode it, more then either of us have done.

I'm sure you'll agree that a bike driving through a remote variable gearing system not fully under the rider's control doesn't necessarily mean it will be good at climbing, and those reports seem to bear that out.That said, as I've remarked before, any lack of climb ability could also be due to the motor and nothing to do with the gearing system.

It's also fair to say that when a bike isn't available for reviews that we can read, one is entitled to speculate on such evidence as is available, and the manufacturer has only themselves to blame for that.
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[Flying Kiwi]

Swizzbee performance

As I've posted before Kiwi, just quoting experience previously read online. I've no idea of the validity of that any more than anyones experience of any other bike. At least they rode it, more then either of us have done.

OK thanks for clarifying that you've not seen an independent full review on a website stating as much. Personally, I'd prefer to rely on such reviews or else personal experience before assuming anything at all negative about this bikes hill climbing ability.

I'm sure you'll agree that a bike driving through a remote variable gearing system not fully under the rider's control doesn't necessarily mean it will be good at climbing,

Just as a high power consumption hub motor wont necessarily make a bike good at hill climbing, the determining factor is the efficiency of the system which is determined principally by the level of skill shown in its design and manufacture. I think it's important to point out that there are many aspects of electric bikes that aren't under the riders direct control (like the Swizzbee setup) but that in the end the rider still has overriding indirect control.

any lack of climb ability could also be due to the motor and nothing to do with the gearing system.

Firstly I'm not convinced there is a lack of climb capability but I'm open to being persuaded otherwise with good sound independant report results. Secondly I dont think the motor could be a weak point at all. The Swizzbee website states that a very reputable brand Heinzmann 270 Watt motor is used on the bike and thats more powerfull than the motors on all the electric bikes that are legally permitted to be ridden on the roads here in the UK (excluding any manufacturer induced 'variation' with regards to the 250 watt legal limit).

It's also fair to say that when a bike isn't available for reviews that we can read, one is entitled to speculate on such evidence as is available, and the manufacturer has only themselves to blame for that.
.

Is the bike deliberately being withheld from reviews? If not, I dont believe it is fair to blame the manufacturer. I know there's the famous case of Rolls Royce prohibiting reviews publishing power outputs of its cars motors or fuel consumption figures but I didn't think that sort of thing was applied to the Swizzbee. I could understand magazines having reservations about reviewing it simply because it's very much a niche product which will only ever be owned by a very small segment of the population. On the other hand, many people love to buy magazines containing exotic car reviews just out of interest to see what those owners must 'endure'.

 

[flecc]

And of course those Rolls Royces did prove to be low powered when compared to the competition, showing they had something to hide, and being in the motor industry at the time I remember personally when the motoring press proved that. You wouldn't remember of course, for that was before you were born.

I couldn't agree more that we need an independent reliable review of the Swizzbee. You've remarked yourself on how long the Swizzbee has been around, so the absence of information on it's performance is now beyond remarkable and entering the realm where some suspicion is justified. I draw my own conclusions from the absence of those in which respect your last point is very valid.

As for any conclusions, I prefer my even handed judgement on this matter since you do of your own admission have a huge bias towards anything that drives through the gears, one which has caused you to rule out under any circumstances any hub drive motor not driving thus. I think this extreme view clouds your impartial judgment and as this forum clearly shows, causes you to attack anything or anyone not totally agreeing with your view in every respect.

Having no bias other than the knowledge that driving though a gear system is potentially superior, I'm prepared to admit every scrap of information and assemble the sum of that in order to make judgements on the possible validity of each scrap, based on my very long professional and private experience in the relevant areas.

 

[rsscott]

I think what we can draw from this is we really need to get our hands on one of these beasts!

Does anyone know if the Swizzbee will be making an appearance at Presteigne next month ?

 

[Flying Kiwi]

Does anyone know if the Swizzbee will be making an appearance at Presteigne next month ?

I agree that an impartial review is much needed. I'm sure those involved with a particularly fast on the flat hub motor powered bike will be keen to know if there'll be Swizzbee's in the event again. I think that, as with the course, it's best if it's all just sprung on riders on the day. A major advantage of this to the potential buyer is that it doesn't give those involved much time to modify/customise their bikes to a specific course and thus the truely flexible bike will have a distinct advantage.