Freedom Ebike brompton

[AndyOfTheSouth]

Hi Caroline.

Thanks for taking the trouble to describe this - it's very useful and much appreciated.

I am sure that you've got a good bike. A few quick observations.

Yes, the closeness of the wiring to the hook will need to be watched. Perhaps you could post a photo of the folded bike with a close up of the hook and the motor wiring in case anyone has some ingenious suggestions?

That big black connector looks like something out of a nuclear submarine parts bin! But is at least it should be reliable...

The battery looks small and light - just right!

Keep us posted and thanks again

Andy

 

[caroline brett]

more photos

Above shows the hub with the wiring coming out near the hook. Then the chunky 7 point pin (I like it but hope it doesn't fall apart as suggested?!)
Then the battery with the controller stuck on the bottom with velcro (very hi tech!), with a phone for size comparison.



The throttle



View into the back pocket of the touring pannier, with the battery etc. inside and the plugged in controller on the right. Sorry I know it's not clear to see what's what really.



This is an attempt to show the hook with the wiring from the hub coming up behind it, when the bike is folded. I didn't have as much trouble with this on the latest fold attempt and am assured that it will wear ok, but will still keep an eye on it!



wiring secured with cable ties.

Picture of the charger to follow. Just finished charging at 1hr 40 mins!

 

[jerrysimon]

Excellent just looking at them now. Thanks for posting.

The throttle looks ok can't quite see the battery and controller with the big block connector.

A pic of the charger would be great thanks. If you could also take a pic of the motor in the wheel as well please if you get a moment.

Great stuff thanks again

Jerry

 

[jerrysimon]

Not sure what you said about 'balancing the batteries'? Not sure what that means.

Oops in my excitement I never saw your post on the last page. Excellent pics so I don't need the larger ones thanks.

Re the above. When charging cells like these you need to make sure that they are "balanced" at the end of the charge. This basically means they should all be at the same voltage. If you charge the whole pack together without monitoring each cell then some may be charged more or even over charged and some may be charged less. You can ensure that each cell is charged to its maximum (and no more or it will damage them) individually, using tabs which lead to each each cell. This method is more common in ther Model RC world where they use these batteries and lipo cells. The Alternative is to use a Battery Management System (BMS) circuit which is attached to the battery pack itself. This is more common in the ebike world. With ebikes the charger then has little intelligence (and is thus cheaper) whereas in the Model RC world all the intelligence is in the charger which is then usually more expensive.

That's why I am interested in seeing a picture of the charger. I suspect it has a small balancer socket on it into which the plug from the little tabs shown on your battery pack, then plugs into.

Regards

Jerry

 

[jerrysimon]

Slightly alarmingly the battery connectors sent out sparks when I connected the battery pack to the controller. I didn't get any shocks though as everything is fully insulated as you would expect, it was just a bit unexpected!

Just read this. Should be ok though I can understand you being surprised

That battery connector is known as deans connector (again used in the RC model world) they cope with high current draw and each of the two male pins is at a different orientation to make sure you can't plug them in the wrong way into the female plug. My RC flight packs often spark when I plug them in. Again this is not a usual plug used in the ebike world for connecting up battery packs.

Regards

Jerry

 

[eddieo]

have you any photos of the bike? the suspense is killing me!

 

[daniel.weck]

I'm glad to see a non-radial spokes layout, cross-1 instead ! Well done to Andrew for rectifying this. There's only a minor inconsistency / mistake in the spoke lacing: the trailing spokes should be on the inside of the hub flange, on both sides of the hub (not just on the right hand side, as it is now). Good quality rims too, with brass eyelets.

 

[daniel.weck]

Words of advice: check the front wheel spoke tension from time to time, especially the first few miles you ride the bike. just "ping" with your finger tip and you should hear the same sound / pitch all around. Otherwise you need to adjust the tension, it is very important on small wheels, especially with a large hub and the added motor torque.

Also, I would recommend to verify that the axle nuts are tight. They hold the standard torque/lock washer in, and as you can see on this photo the little "nipple" is not fully engaged above the nut. Nothing to worry about per say, but better safe than sorry (any fork failure will result in pain):

 

[jerrysimon]

Also, I would recommend to verify that the axle nuts are tight. They hold the standard torque/lock washer in, and as you can see on this photo the little "nipple" is not fully engaged above the nut. Nothing to worry about per say, but better safe than sorry (any fork failure will result in pain):

Man you have a keen eye Dan

I never noticed that. Also interesting comment about the wheel build.

I hope Caroline gets time to post a pic of the charger. I want to check that those cells are being balanced.

Regards

Jerry

 

[daniel.weck]

Also interesting comment about the wheel build.

Well, another remark is that some spokes normally "rub" each other (in pairs in this case, due to the cross-1 lacing patter). This is the "lacing" part, actually. To achieve that, you need to position the trailing spoke (which is on the inside of the hub flange) "behind" the corresponding leading spoke (outside of the flange). This gives the wheel extra strength as a selected set of spokes are in intimate contact, and contribute to each other's tension, in a way. By the way, with any cross pattern, this should be the case *only* for the last "outermost" trailing spoke that a leading spoke crosses. As we are with a 1-cross pattern, a trailing spoke only has one choice of leading spoke to lace with Now, with our 1-cross pattern on very short spokes, this would mean twisting the spokes quite a bit, and in my case it compromised how the nipple "sits" in its eyelet-hole. So just like Freedom E-Bikes, I dropped this rule and my spokes don't rub each other (LOL, this phrase sounds like it could mean something else )

Seewatamean?

 

[jerrysimon]

Dan, so puting this simply are you saying that what they did was ok ?

Regards

Jerry

 

[daniel.weck]

Dan, so puting this simply are you saying that what they did was ok ?

I don't have a long experience of wheel-building, but I do have an opinion, so here it is: I think that it's ok not to lace the short spokes in a 1-cross pattern, as it indeed compromises the seating of the nipple through the eyelet rim hole and its reliable threading onto the spoke, due to how tight the application on a 16"-wheel is.

The Sparticle wheel seems to be built with this rule as well (see photo below). Interestingly, note that their trailing spokes do not run on the inside of the hub flange, but at least the lacing is consistent on the other side (that would be my main critic of the way the Freedom E-Bike wheel is laced...maybe it's just a one-off "mistake").

I can't comment on the spokes tension, which is probably the next most important thing. My wheel stabilized after a few miles, so again I would encourage to check regularly. Wheel failures usually occur because of poor tensioning and the resulting stress in selected spokes.

 

[caroline brett]

feedback

Thanks everyone who has posted useful info for me to bear in mind with my new purchase. I shall certainly be keeping an eye on the spoke tension and the axle nuts. I made a special request for the cross-pattern on the wheel after reading comments about the weakness of the radial pattern (so thanks for flagging that up!). Don't know if he usually does that but he said on email that he could 'do either'.

Re: the charger, sorry no photo yet and no time tonight but I don't think that the cells are being balanced as the charger plugs into the same bit that the controller plugs into when connecting to the battery. I.e. the extra coloured wires with little white bits on the end are maybe how the cells are connected together but the charger does not interface with these.

That said, Andrew H. of Freedom ebikes maintains that he has been using these batteries with this charger for well over a year regularly with good performance. But perhaps he will take your comments into account for future reference - I've got a feeling he's keeping an eye on this thread.

I'll try to put a photo of the charger in on Friday if that's ok - I'm going to be up in London as of tomorrow morning and using the new steed for three days - back Thurs pm.

One last point re: ease of use. It turns out that the battery needs to be disconnected from both the controller and the throttle when not in use. Disconnecting from the throttle obviously 'turns off' the motor, but the controller continues to drain the battery when left connected, even when the motor is not connected. I didn't realise that, giving me a bit of a shock today when I took the bike for a spin with a supposedly full battery, only to find that I didn't get a nice green LED shining when I connected up the motor. Fortunately worked out what might have been happening, which Andrew confirmed. Communications post-delivery continues to be very good, by the way. I think the poor chap will be glad to see the back of me quite honestly cos I've been bombarding him with emails for the last month since I first started thinking about buying this machine. However, I think it is only reasonable seeing as I have entrusted him with near to 1 and a half grand of my hard -earned! Anyway, to get to the point: it is not the easiest thing in the world to connect and disconnect the controller as it is a little socket thingy which makes sparks and I'm hoping all the rubber insulation is going to stay in place over time! Although it is reassuring to hear that that is 'normal'. Perhaps I will become adept at it with practice but it is not the most user-friendly. On the up-side, even though the battery was not very full when I set off the pull up hills continues to be very good.

BW
Caroline

 

[jerrysimon]

Anyway, to get to the point: it is not the easiest thing in the world to connect and disconnect the controller as it is a little socket thingy which makes sparks and I'm hoping all the rubber insulation is going to stay in place over time!

Thanks for the update Caroline. No problem about the charger pic I know how work gets.

The Deans Conectors can be tough to connect and disconnect. On the ones I use for RC Models sometimes just a "tiny" bit of grease on the metal pins can help. Just a little smear then wipe it off your finger. I find this makes it much easier. Usually its parting them that is hardest but it will also help them connect more easily and quicker and will keep the sparking down in that they will go in first attempt quickly.

The whole balancing thing is interesting. Perhaps I should email Andrew. I am pretty certain these cells need to be balanced during charging. That said his guarantee should cover you if there are any problems.

Regards

Jerry

 

[Roger Hamlett]

The plug....

Caroline has posted a picture of half the connector.
It is like a Bulgin connector, with seven pins. Measures about 34mm*40mm*120mm when together. Weighs well over 100 grams. No clips, and not very tight. For my brother, after only a couple of days, it started falling apart over every rut in the road....
Now, I don't like using the connector as the switch. Generally plug contacts are not designed as switches.
My 'rewire', used a 3 pin Canon IP67 plug for the three motor connections (the only ones carrying any power), and a miniature push button locked connector for the handlebar assembly (MTA type). The controller has a 'kill' input (two pins on the controller marked 'BK1' and 'BK2' - designed as 'brake' inputs - short either to ground, and the system stops). I added a tiny 'kill' button to the handlebar assembly - I'd hate to be riding the standard unit, and find the throttle had stuck..... The connections to the handlebar assembly, are normally four wires - 0v, 5v, hall signal, and battery votage - for the LED indicator. Mine adds one extra 'kill' wire. Then the power connection, retained the standard Deans plugs, but I added a three way 'centre off' switch, to give battery1, off, battery2. This way, you can switch off here completely, and avoid sparks....
I'd rate the wiring design, as the 'worst bit' of this system.

Best Wishes

 

[john]

Torque washer up-side-down

Also, I would recommend to verify that the axle nuts are tight. They hold the standard torque/lock washer in, and as you can see on this photo the little "nipple" is not fully engaged above the nut. Nothing to worry about per say, but better safe than sorry (any fork failure will result in pain):

The torque washer is actually installed up-side-down. The nipple should be at the bottom, protruding into the bottom of the drop-out.

 

[jerrysimon]

John,

On the Brompton fork there is a lug hole that the nipple goes in which effectively holds the torque washer up into the fork dropout.

The washer is then shaped to prevent the motor shaft from dropping out or spinning in the fork dropouts.

You can see it in this picture from another post that Dan did a while back.

Regards

Jerry

 

[daniel.weck]

Jerry is absolutely right, but for the sake of completeness: John's remark applies correctly to the Bafang torque washer (which is the motor I am currently using). Cheers, Dan

 

[jerrysimon]

Sorry Dan I thought he was referring to your comments about Caroline's Tongxin fitted in her Brompton forks.

Regards

Jerry

 

[john]

If it locates in a hole then that is fine. It didn't appear to be in Caroline's bike and I didn't know there was a hole there on the Brompton. As has been said, it helps to stop the axle from "spinning out" which is not a pleasant matter.