Freedom Ebike brompton

[caroline brett]

Hello, after doing some research which led me to this forum, I have ended up ordering a brompton conversion from Freedom ebikes. I thought it might be useful to write about my experiences with this company and product on here for the benefit of other people looking into a electric folder with (relatively) low weight. If this isn't the right place to be doing this, someone let me know before I write any more!

thanks,
Caroline

 

[AndyOfTheSouth]

Hi Caroline - this is certainly the right place, so start writing!

 

[Pedalo]

Can't wait to hear how you got on. I came quite close to ordering a freedom kit myself.

 

[jerrysimon]

... I thought it might be useful to write about my experiences with this company and product on here for the benefit of other people looking into a electric folder with (relatively) low weight. If this isn't the right place to be doing this, someone let me know before I write any more!

thanks,
Caroline

Excellent Caroline and a warm welcome to the froum.

Many of us have been looking at this and you ordering one and doing a write up is very timely.

It seems the only place to get this small motor kit is either Freedome ebikes or the electric wheel company.

I am particually interested in their battery arrangement. Have you ordered one or two bateries ? Also did you order the basic kit or the one with the forks as well ?

Also which Brompton are you fitting it to ?

Pics would be great too. Sorry for the 20 questions lol

Keep us posted.

PS I have just ordered a Brompton

Regards

Jerry

 

[dan]

looked at freedom ebikes web site only a mobile number no address...i thought you were required to put a contact address and company registration number on a web site...I might be wrong

 

[flecc]

looked at freedom ebikes web site only a mobile number no address...i thought you were required to put a contact address and company registration number on a web site...I might be wrong

Tony Castles is the man behind the design and his other websites, electrobike.co.uk, nanomotor.co.uk, mrmotivator.co.uk and others have always only had his mobile number with no other way of contact. They never had a way of onsite ordering and paying for products though, so that may be legal since having to contact by phone first makes it more like a mail order or shop transaction.
.

 

[daniel.weck]

looked at freedom ebikes web site only a mobile number no address...i thought you were required to put a contact address and company registration number on a web site...I might be wrong

Andrew Hamilton's business is established in Israel (Jerusalem I think). He definitely seems like a trustworthy guy, but only history will say whether it worked for UK-based buyers (taxes/shipping duties, delivery, after-sales, etc.)...baring in mind that the Nano/Electric-Wheel-Company's record in terms of communication is not exactly a shining example, and yet it's based locally !

I for one can't wait to hear about this kit, and to see photos of it too
(A123 battery in particular)

Some contact details (minus the personal address he used to send me emails, as it shouldn't be shown on a public forum):

andrew@freedomebikes.com
http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/members/apshamlton.html

Freedom E-Bikes - About Us

EDIT: I'm not convinced by the radial spoke arrangement...see here:

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/4642-nano-brompton-3.html#post59238

 

[jerrysimon]

An Update ?

Bump

I am not going to let this one fade away!

Regards

Jerry

 

[jerrysimon]

Bump any update

Jerry

 

[caroline brett]

update

Hello again! Thanks for the welcome and sorry for the delay...
Actually, I am rather sorry about the delay because my eagerly awaited ebike is indeed subject to delay....
It was ordered on 4th October after some back and forth emails enquiring about various options. Andrew Hamilton won my confidence with his prompt replies and clear information. He quoted me a two week wait and then 2-3 days for delivery (for a new Brompton with kit installed). Because I was so keen he kindly agreed to process the order immediately rather than waiting for my e-cheque to clear. On 13th October (i.e. after 9 days) he let me know that there would be a slight delay as his rim supplier had misrouted the wheel rim he needed and suggested he would post it the next week. That was last week: on Wednesday I contacted him again and he admitted that he still didn't have the rim and was expecting to post it this week - tomorrow. So fingers crossed. Would be more annoyed except that I am aware the Electric Wheel Company has a poor record for the time it takes to receive the product (the other chap who posted on here about the Nano Brompton seemed to have waited 5 months or so for his (is that right?), having been quoted 4-6 weeks).

So, I don't have much more info. But my thinking behind the choice was that I need a truly portable folding electric bike to manage my commute which incorporates station stairs, a very steep and long hill on my return journey, and a need not to arrive sweaty for my appointments. I don't go a long way though, which made me choose the lighter option with the low mileage over the Nano Brompton which tempted me initially. That and, as I said, the desire to actually get hold of this bike before my job changes and I've spent hundreds of pounds on cumulative bus and tube fares.

In consultation with Andrew and a test ride of a three speed Brompton I decided to get a two gear Brompton on the basis that this will save about 809g on the hub and that I would very rarely use the lowest gear of a three speed with the motor. I really wanted to get a second hand EBay brompton and get the Easy-Fit kit from Andrew (on the basis that I did not feel confident stretching the forks and filing out the dropins). I'm sure it is easy but I figured I didn't want to spend hundreds of pounds on a motor kit and the bike and then end up installing it slightly wonky and having a crap bike at the end of it. So I was going for the option where you get your bike shop to swap over the forks. Then I got outbid a couple of times on Ebay and was wasting hours, no: days, poring over the listings and getting obsessive about it for a week or so: plus I didn't want the S-bar option and there seem to be few ML2 Bromptons about in the second hand market. I decided to go for the new bike and kit from Andrew cos the package worked out cheaper than getting a new one and fitting the Kit afterwards. Plus he promised me the whole kit in two and a half weeks!

I also ordered two extra batteries at the same time so that I can go on longer journeys or get a trailer and tow loads like shopping around my hilly home town if I want (batteries connected in parallel). This worked out cheaper with the shipping etc than ordering these later, so I'm just hoping that I've calculated correctly and they will be useful. He promised me that they would not expire so long as I charged them up once every month or two. The whole package (new bike, fitted, with two extra batteries and shipping) came to £50 less than the Nano Brompton equivalent from the Electric Wheel company (based on a concurrent quote for the same model from them): but then buying the front bag as well (which was included in the EWC quote but not the Freedom Ebikes quote) it comes to £25 more all in.

However, until I have my lovely machine in my sticky impatient hands I can't comment on how any of these decisions have panned out! Here's hoping it lives up to my expectations and is fully functioning on arrival (as it will obviously be harder to deal with any difficulties when the company is based in Jerusalem). My blood is running slightly cold at the thought of the import duties, which I had actually not factored into the equation: this was not mentioned to me by Freedom EBikes and I didn't think of it. Gulp.

I'll keep you posted...hoping that it will be with me by the end of the week now.

 

[caroline brett]

spokes

Being a novice to this arena and not having a clue I asked Andrew H to do me a cross-over spoke pattern on the hub, based on the comments I read on this forum.

 

[jerrysimon]

Hi Caroline,

Great to see you back here posting an update. We are gonna want to see some pics when it arrives

It seems you really have pushed the boat out buying a brand new Brompton and the kit.

I can see why you went for the whole thing fitted and ready to go. Given you don't want to bother with the DIY approach it does make sense.

Its kind of ironic though that the bike will have gone all the way from England to Jerusalem and back again. Even if they are not marking up the cost of the bike your going to be paying additional postage costs plus import duty for sure. Unless of course you are VERY lucky and they let it go through.

I spoke to Andrew about the kit and specifically asked about import duty and he estimated around £60. I am not sure how it will work with additional bike costs, but if they charge you its going to be quite expensive. Note in addition to the £8 admin fee you will be charged import duty on the full cost of the bike, plus kit and postage

Again this depends on what Andrew marks the value of the package as.

Interesting to see you went for the M2L I have agonised over this as I was going to get a S2L mainly as you said to have the reduced weight. In the end though I have ordered a M3L. I like the idea of the enclosed 3 speed hub.

Keep us posted. I am sure it will all work out for you in the end. There are some very experienced people on the forum who can advise you if need be.

Dan can comment about the spoke pattern and I think as he has now built a Brompton wheel himself, his advice will be based on experience.


Regards

Jerry

 

[caroline brett]

import duty

Hi Jerry,
Thanks for your reply. I'm wobbling now about the whole thing I have to admit. I feel like a fool for not realising about the import duty. I guess I've just never imported anything big from abroad and so there's never been an issue to raise it in my awareness.

I've kind of looked into it now and think that, since the bike was originally manufactured in the UK and is now being returned from processing, I should really only be liable for the tax on the added components, not the bike which was made here. However, it all seems really complicated to claim back and get authorisation on, especially as the bike didn't belong to me when it was exported (and Andrew Hamilton therefore doesn't have an export note to show). He has got the rims today and will start the build and is planning to ship by the end of this week. He sent me a message saying that he was sorry I didn't realise about the taxes but had ordered the bike specially for me - obviously he's going to be a bit narked if I pull out now.

The really really annoying thing is that I could have just bought a ML2 that Cycle Heaven in york had in stock three weeks ago, been riding it in the meantime, and just ordered the Easy Install Kit from Freedom...I would still need to pay duty on that but it would be a fraction of the value. I didn't do that because the price on the fully kitted up bike was slightly less than buying the bike separately and installing the kit - but certainly not once you factor in the import duty!!

Help!!? not sure what to do now. Should I cancel the order of the bike, if possible, and just get the kit? Any thoughts??

 

[Bigbee]

Can you cancel the order?It seems bespoke to you?To send a UK bike to Isreal for conversion and pay duty on the return seems like madness.Is there really such a large gap in the market for the small bike kits here in the UK?

Reading your posts,the bloke in Isreal does sound a bit Mickey Mouse,I like the sound of the A123 batteries though.Why is there no access in this country to these batteries?I know theyre heavily patented

 

[caroline brett]

duty etc

Phew! Feeling a bit calmer. Thought it might be more helpful if I just report what I have been told by Freedom bikes for other people's benefit:

1) he didn't flag up the tax issue at any point even when discussing things like whether to sell me the front pannier at the same time (and whether it would be competitive price-wise). I know that I as the buyer am reponsible for being aware of import taxes but I would have thought it was good practice to highlight this when your customer is dithering about accessories that will only add to the value of the package and can be bought locally. But perhaps not good business sense...except it has not added to my experience of ordering through him!

2) He is intending to label it as 'reconditioned item: value £300': which was following my suggestion that he label it on the cost value of the additional components since the bike was originally exported from the UK. I don't know whether he has ever sent anything to the UK before; he didn't answer that question. However he claims that the bike says 'made in Britain' on it prominently and thinks that should do it. I'm not convinced that that is the right thing to put on the package really, and I'm also not convinced that he knows what the best thing to put on the package is. Really he ought to be getting hold of the export notices for the bikes he imports, and getting clearance to return them, so that he gets Outward Processing Relief legally and above board, on the value of the bike itself.

I guess I have to decide whether I want to gamble that it will get through, and swallow the additional 60-90 pounds (the handling fee is 13.50); or whether the risk of being stung for more should put me off completely. I am a bit concerned that I am a guinea pig for this and frankly I am not made of money though perhaps I have been behaving as if I am!

Dammit! I just wanted the bike quickly

 

[caroline brett]

cancelling order?

In terms of whether I can cancel the order: he bought the ML2 from a local supplier to him, rather than ordering it. Therefore, assuming he has not messed around with the bike yet, I would have thought he should be able to return it to the shop. If, however, he has already widened the forks, I guess he couldn't and I am stuck with it. My impression is that he hasn't got that far yet. But I have to admit that I've got a kamikaze inclination to just go ahead with the whole thing and keep my fingers crossed. I think that he should specify the components that have been added though, in order to make it clearer if the customs people open up the parcel to check.

 

[jerrysimon]

I have had experience with import duty on several high value guitars I have purchased from the USA.

There is a danger with marking values down, in that any insurance should the item be lost or damaged would equally be payable at the declared value, so a bit risky really.

I am not sure what to advise really about cancelling the order and its really for you to wiegh it all up and decide for yourself.

Again I thought there were certain rights you have about cancelling internet goods that you have ordered on line but I am no expert. I also always use a credit card on line for additional cover and protection that gives me.

Ps don't beat yourself up about being impatient I suffer from the same thing.

Regards

Jerry

 

[caroline brett]

freedom ebikes

thanks for the moral support Jerry - and the practical advice. I think I probably have to go ahead as he told me a week or so ago that he had 'started the build'. Not sure what that would have involved really as he did not have the rims and so was not able to build up the wheel around the hub. But maybe he just starts with the throttle, wires, and fork. Since I paid through PayPal I think I do have some coverage but I'm not sure what my rights would be in this situation as basically I think I have to admit it was my error not to realise about the taxes. I live and learn. So now it's just deciding whether to pay several hundred pounds on labelling the bike correctly (which does seem like madness as the bike was manufactured in the UK and I'd be paying two lots of VAT effectively), or whether to hope that it gets through safe and sound on the value of the components alone.

I think I have to surrender and think positively at this point! And envisage myself gliding effortlessly up the hill home...

Anyway, hopefully my next post will be more informative about that actual bike itself!

 

[barrycoll]

Caroline, I feel for you...
my posts were similar to yours, as I was (trying!!) to buy a conversion from the EWC for my wife's 6 speed Brompton, which was giving me the sweats + very cold feet...
but my problems were just lack of communication from the EWC, and the fact that I had paid a £200 deposit which in hindsight, seemed kamikarzi to me too, as the 'silence' from EWC suggested a possible bankruptcy
but helpful people like flecc and others, said that eventually I would be happy/delighted with the conversion, and lo & behold, this has come to pass in spades
even in L6 form the bike is a delight...it powers up any hill with modest assistance, at a steady 13mph, and this still brings an ear to ear grin...
in hindsight, a 2 speed would have been perfect, as one doesnt need any more
and my wife loves it, although the wait did cause a bit potential Marriage Guidance while it lasted...
my advice would be, worry not, my dear, as you will appreciate the product, long after you have forgotten the cost!....and after all, you can dine out on the misery of the story for yonks

 

[jerrysimon]

When I checked the page its 0871 284 5225 not 0845 284 5225

Freedom E-Bikes - About Us

Andrew has always answered my emails pretty promptly too.

Regards

Jerry