Frank From Germany/China Back Online ?

[jerrysimon]

I think Frank is coming back on line after his move to China.

Der Umbausatz

I notice some of his pages have been updated including contact and technical details.

Worryingly the Tongxin stuff seems to be being removed

He was kinda my last hope for getting one for my Brompton when it arrives

I will mail him tomorrow to see if he is around.

Regards

Jerry

 

[daniel.weck]

Thanks for the heads-up !
It seems like he is still sorting-out the bank/PayPal payment options, and I am sure he will also develop his product offering soon. As for the Tongxin...

 

[jerrysimon]

Tongxin For The Brompton

Well spoke to Frank and it looks like he will be up and running in mid/late November.

He is always so helpfull when he emails.

Anyway the bad news for me is that he has decided not to stock Tongxin or the FWF motors stating that he has had too many returns

He claims up to 10% but I am guessing these are from those people who are buying these for the wrong application and pushing them too hard e.g. starting off from a standstill etc.

He has pointed me in the direction of a Crystalyte 209. This is a 75mm wide hub motor (perfect for Brompton forks) but as you can imagine at that width it is direct drive not geared. It comes in 36v or 24V variety and is readily available from Europe.

Crystalyte Europe :: Motors :: 209 Front wheel brushless motor 16"-20" rim

Being direct drive it has the advantage of being silent but man its heavy at 5kg incl the wheel build

I think I am going to end up having to buy a Tongxin kit. I have actually had some useful email exchanges with Tony (ex EWC) who is no longer running EWC which is run by Martin now I think. Anway they have also replied to me telling me they will sell me a kit minus the battery.

I am waiting for my Brompton to arrive and will then have to make up my mind what to do.

Its so damn annoying that these Tongxin motors are not as readily available as others.

Regards

Jerry

 

[daniel.weck]

Electric Wheel Company (Nano) kit without the battery...sounds good. What's the price point ? (PM please if it is a one-off personal arrangement)

 

[flecc]

Anyway the bad news for me is that he has decided not to stock Tongxin or the FWF motors stating that he has had too many returns

He claims up to 10% but I am guessing these are from those people who are buying these for the wrong application and pushing them too hard e.g. starting off from a standstill etc.

While unsuitable applications do cause trouble with these motors, it's worth paying attention to the warnings. They've had a very poor history of failures in the US market where they were first introduced and a fair number in this forum. For example in the worst cases, member Frank9755 went through along string of controller failures and I don't think his is running currently. Member John had, I think, five motor failures in succession, despite a reasonable application.

The odd manufacturer like Cytronex do seem to have a fair degree of reliability by warning against using the motor from a standstill, but even there they haven't been completely failure free. I view it as a vulnerable design with a higher than usual risk of problems, only fully suitable in very moderately geared small wheel bikes like the Nano-Brompton, and Frank's decision doesn't surprise me.
.

 

[HarryB]

The odd manufacturer like Cytronex do seem to have a fair degree of reliability by warning against using the motor from a standstill, but even there they haven't been completely failure free.
.

I have had a freewheel failure - described by Mark from Cytronex as a spring coming adrift within the casing. I did do several thousand miles on a tongxin which was trouble free despite the standing starts (and it was a 190rpm in 700c). But the last two have not been as good - the latest is noisy under power as well as being gutless. The controllers are reliable provided you don't tuck them away in bags or out of the way of the airflow (and I think Frank has only had controller failures rather than motor failures).

By the way has anybody tried Mark to see if he is willing to sell the motors alone. I did try and buy one to build into my own wheel and he didn't seem keen to sell the motor alone but it might be worth giving him a try again.

 

[jerrysimon]

Thanks HarryB,

As I said I think I will wait for my Brompton to get here first. The cycle to work thing is taking a while to sort out.

At least I have my Cytronex which is doing a great job for my daily commute.

PS what is the view on the Crystalyte direct drive motor hub linked above ?

Regards

Jerry

 

[barrycoll]

does any body know as to whether Tongxin failures could be related not only using from standing start, but also weight of bike bags carried, plus I suppose the 'size' of the rider....
I am getting a little nervous about my recent EWC Bompton conversion, after reading the current thread, altho' everthing seems pretty AOK at the moment...
Caroline importing her Brompton from Israel wont be too happy either!

 

[jerrysimon]

Don't worry

barrycoll,

I would not worry it appears that the Brompton application is "perfect" for the Tongxin.

Everything I have heard indicates that and failures are more associtiated with larger wheeled bikes. In addition, again through a lot of reading, early failures seemed more associated with the controllers as well which now seem to have been sorted out.

If you are still worried then just take the kit off and sell it to me for a cut down price

Regards

Jerry

 

[Xcytronex]

Cost of Tongxin kit +wheel build[without battery] was around £240 earlier this year--check their website prices and remove the battery cost. Responding members to my previous post where less than enthusiastic and seemed to think Electric Wheel prices far too expensive --having said that I believe they are also experiencing supply problems .They cannot source my 260 motor and have offered a refund.

 

[jerrysimon]

Xcytronex,

Which site Electric wheel ?

I don't think they have prices up.

Tony told me they were having problems sourcing 36 holed Brompton rims ?

Just found this video of a Crystalyte hub motor. Seems quite quiet.

YouTube - Crystalyte X5304 48v Nimh

I wonder what the freewheel is like. I am rapidly thinking this might be the way to go depsite the wieght penalty

Regards

Jerry

 

[Xcytronex]

Price on the website is £649 for the whole kit including battery -the 260 motor kit+ wheel build and rim with delivery that I ordered was around £240.

 

[jerrysimon]

Well they quoted me £430 + £15 postage only a week or so ago for near enough the same thing

This included a full kit and wheel build, excluding battery but incl the bag special power attachement.

Regards

Jerry

 

[flecc]

I am getting a little nervous about my recent EWC Bompton conversion, after reading the current thread, altho' everthing seems pretty AOK at the moment...
Caroline importing her Brompton from Israel wont be too happy either!

As Jerry has said, the Brompton is ideal for the Tongxin Nano. The combination of slight undergearing with a top assist speed of 13/14 mph, together with the climb/acceleration physical advantage of the small 16" wheel lead to a very low stress situation. For a motor/controller combination that has some potential for frailty, it's the best possible application.
.

 

[daniel.weck]

the 260 motor kit+ wheel build and rim with delivery that I ordered was around £240.

Well they quoted me £430 + £15 postage only a week or so ago for near enough the same thing

Mhmm

 

[monster]

don't get a tongsin motor or a Tarn motor. i would advise against getting any small geared hub motor with split axle design. they all suffer from ring gears that snap and motors that skip. i got flecced on flee bay over a tarn motor. it had a snapped ring gear and it seems to be way too common among this type of motor. all direct drive motors are robust and rapairable and will last almost forever. any geared hub motor that weighs under 4Kg is bound to break inside 6 months.

 

[daniel.weck]

i got flecced on flee bay over a tarn motor.

I didn't know Flecc was involved with eBay !

 

[jerrysimon]

any geared hub motor that weighs under 4Kg is bound to break inside 6 months.

You raise some valid points however in the case of Cytronex using Tongxin motors many are a lot older than 6 months and still running mine included.

Regards

Jerry

 

[Xcytronex]

Mhmm

Well at least the battery is now better value !!!!!!!!!!!Sourcing a Tongxin is a real minefield and also I suspect any additional support.Regarding price -God only knows-I paid £235 for the 260 kit[April] + wheel build -but am now awaiting a refund as the goods have never materialised.

 

[jerrysimon]

Well at least the battery is now better value !!!!!!!!!!!Sourcing a Tongxin is a real minefield and also I suspect any additional support.Regarding price -God only knows-I paid £235 for the 260 kit[April] + wheel build -but am now awaiting a refund as the goods have never materialised.

This is all VERY confusing. The email they sent me only a week or so ago said if I paid a deposit they could have the wheel built and sent to me within a week

Maybe they just like collecting deposits ?

Regards

Jerry