France on a Woosh

Rupert1

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Mar 22, 2017
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First not sure where to place this posting but no doubt it can be moved if required. My wife and I have just returned from six weeks in France and I took an ebike for the first time to try as additional transport with our motorhome. The bike is a Woosh Bermuda with a 15a battery, I posted a bit about this a few months ago and still as an ebike novice I hope my views do not upset anyone but they are just my opinions. First few ride were along pretty flat canal and river cycle paths, of which there are a lot in France. The bike made short work of this and I was doing rides or around twenty miles, battery indicator showing just one light out after each ride. We stayed for a few days in the Tarn Gorge and I decided to give the bike a stiffer test by riding up one of the roads out of the gorge. The one I chose was out of the village of Malene and is about two miles to the top. The first few hairpins are very steep and I used full assist and down to second gear, after this it eased a little but still steep, I used 2nd and 3rd gear all the way to the top. Arrived ok but pleased as I am a not very fit old bloke and would not even attempt this on a normal bike, two bars on the battery gone after two miles though, although one flickered back coming down. A few more rides then we arrived in the Pyrenees and I decided to attempt a col used on the Tour du France, the Aspin. Did not start right from the valley but around six miles from the top. This is pretty steep all the way especially in the numerous hairpins and again I used 2nd and 3rd gear with maximum assist most of the way, surprised to see other ebikes on the way. I made it, pretty ‘wacked’ but the bike got me there, something I never dreamed I could do only few months ago after giving up my standard bike last year. Battery only just made it though, almost completely flat after six miles but fortunately all downhill on the way back.

A few observations that may be of use to other novice riders. If you are going to tackle big climbs, certainly more than one take a spare battery. If anyone tells you cheap bike with a hub motor will not climb ignore them. The Woosh is a heavy old lump, cost less than £1000, and performed really well, unless you are a serious off roader I cannot see it is worth the average user spending much more than this. I do not see how a more expensive bike could have done any better. I understand you pay more money you get better components but do you really need them, not to climb hills that is for sure. Out of interest just after we entered the Pyrenes we encountered a bike race and stopped at the finish to watch. To my surprise ebikes came through the finish and I wandered across to speak to one of the officials. He told me they had a class for ebikes and tried to explain the rules but my French is not good enough to get them all so will not try to explain on here. The number of ebikes in France is astonishing and in places nearly equalled normal bikes with many being used on motorhomes as we did.
 

basicasic

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Apr 25, 2017
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Sounds like a lovely trip through the varied French countryside. The number of any bikes in France is quite astonishing really though the climate makes it possible to use them frequently all year round and that's probably why. There are definitely a lot more e-bikes around these days.

Your experience demonstrates the huge difference terrain makes to range though and nothing beats cruising up a nice long steep hill while 'normal' bikes are slogging it :)
 
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anotherkiwi

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Woosh

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Col d'Aspin
Altitude : 1489 m
Length : 10.80 km (6 miles)
elevation : 785 m
% average : 7.27%
% Maximal : 10.0%

To climb 800m = 15AH battery

Thank you Rupert1 for the feedback.
 
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anotherkiwi

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What cells are you using? Doesn't say on the web site.

I would say to the OP if you climbed a +7% average gradient col in 1st gear you should get more range. You would be going a bit slower of course, I aim for around 10 km/h which is about 100% faster than if I was on an ordinary bike!
 

Woosh

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there is a label on the battery.
If it says 15AH then it's Samsung 18650-29E.
If it says 14.5AH then it's Panasonic 18650-PF
Both have 15AH although the PF packs are labelled 14.5AH.
When fully charged, you get the same 540WH from either.
Both are 10S5P arrays.

The battery usage to climb Col d'Aspin should be about 400WH. There should be about 25% left in the tank, the Bermuda has only 4 bars, the last bar on the Bermuda may have just gone off.
 

EddiePJ

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What cells are you using? Doesn't say on the web site.

I would say to the OP if you climbed a +7% average gradient col in 1st gear you should get more range. You would be going a bit slower of course, I aim for around 10 km/h which is about 100% faster than if I was on an ordinary bike!
I'd go as far as to say that the range isn't that great, given that the elevation gain was just 2,575ft.


.
 
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Woosh

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you would be surprised that most of the battery's capacity is burnt gaining elevation.
On my estimate, someone of my age group and fitness would spend an hour climbing that 6 miles col.
the SWX02 motor on the Bermuda would run at about 65% efficiency.
This route is perfect for a crank drive bike but it also shows the suitability of bikes like the Bermuda - built for less fit people.
 
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Rupert1

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Mar 22, 2017
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there is a label on the battery.
If it says 15AH then it's Samsung 18650-29E.
If it says 14.5AH then it's Panasonic 18650-PF
Both have 15AH although the PF packs are labelled 14.5AH.
When fully charged, you get the same 540WH from either.
Both are 10S5P arrays.

The battery usage to climb Col d'Aspin should be about 400WH. There should be about 25% left in the tank, the Bermuda has only 4 bars, the last bar on the Bermuda may have just gone off.
It had just gone off but did flicker back to life on the way down. As I have said just a novice on this stuff but the battery is 14.5v. I did use a lot of assist am quite happy with the batteries perfomance. I wonder how many who are saying it should do better have actually tried this stuff. However in my case I had no intention of going further. Under normal flat road conditions, top gear, middle level of assist it certainly goes what I would call a long way, will try one day and run it out to see.
 

VictoryV

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Feb 15, 2012
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It had just gone off but did flicker back to life on the way down. As I have said just a novice on this stuff but the battery is 14.5v. I did use a lot of assist am quite happy with the batteries perfomance. I wonder how many who are saying it should do better have actually tried this stuff. However in my case I had no intention of going further. Under normal flat road conditions, top gear, middle level of assist it certainly goes what I would call a long way, will try one day and run it out to see.
When trying to run it out choose a short "circular" course around home so that when the battery does pack up you do not have too far to ride home - it will be a boring exercise going round the circuit again and again
 

chris_n

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I'd go as far as to say that the range isn't that great, given that the elevation gain was just 2,575ft.


.
5,600+ for me today on a 400Wh battery, over 35 miles, most of the big climb is over 10% over about 8-9 miles with the last 2 miles probably 15% average and pitches of about 30%
 
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Woosh

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Rupert1,

how long did it take you to ride to the top?
 

Woosh

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5,600+ for me today on a 400Wh battery.
Rupert1 climbed straight up, the energy required in his case is

E = mgh = 110 * 9.98 * 800 / 3600 + 12 * 6 WH = 316WH

In my estimation, his speed is around 7mph, motor efficiency is 65%.
The battery consumption is

= 110 * 9.98 * 800 / (3600 * 0.65) + 6 * 6 WH = 411WH

If he climbed the same route with a crank drive, the motor efficiency will be around 80% and the battery consumption would be:

= 110 * 9.98 * 800 / (3600 * 0.80) + 6 * 6 WH = 341WH

In your case, the computer may add up all the elevations from small segments to arrive at 5600ft but as you depart from your house and return to it, your net elevation is zero.
 

EddiePJ

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5,600+ for me today on a 400Wh battery, over 35 miles, most of the big climb is over 10% over about 8-9 miles with the last 2 miles probably 15% average and pitches of about 30%
Sounds good Chris. :)

Putting perspective of performance to this, I have managed to find a couple of short climbs that are close in distance to that of the climb by the OP.

Ruper1, that was a very creditable climb by both your self and the bike. keep it up. :)







And one example showing maximum elevation gain over the shortest possible distance.

 
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Woosh

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Putting perspective of performance to this, I have managed to find a couple of short climbs that are close in distance to that of the climb by the OP.


this climb is twice as tough as Rupert1's route..
Do you know how long it took and how much battery left when you arrived at the top?
 

Rupert1

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Mar 22, 2017
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Rupert1,

how long did it take you to ride to the top?
Not to sure I am afraid, no watch on. I would say a bit over an hour. Should explain battery may not have been fully charged although it did show four lights. We only have mains electric supply about once every three days and although it had not been used for a couple of days the battery had been in motorhome locker for this time with no top up.
 
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Rupert1

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Mar 22, 2017
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Not trying to start a competition here fellows just reporting what I did and how the bike performed. Sorry I did not record exact details of elasped time, speed etc but you can assume no records broken or claimed. Just an old bloke on a cheap bike out for a ride. Will try to be more explicite in future but probably will not bother.
 
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EddiePJ

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this climb is twice as tough as Rupert1's route..
Do you know how long it took and how much battery left when you arrived at the top?
The ride is shown below, but I have no idea if the moving time takes into account a couple of photo stops. As a guesstimate of the battery, there was about 15-20% left. No more than that though, and my 'estimate' is based solely upon looking that the battery bars remaining, which was two out of five.

The toughest part is the first 1.5 miles. You can see this when you move the arrow cursor along the bottom scale of the slope.

https://www.strava.com/activities/656138180

I should have added above, credit to the hub motor for not cutting out on Ruperts climb. It did well, as did Rupert.

I'm back there again next week, so will piece together few more climbs.

For perspective of the lower section of the climb that you asked about, this is the same climb when descending.

 
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EddiePJ

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Will try to be more explicite in future but probably will not bother.

Please continue Rupert, it is really enjoyable seeing your ride details, and I apologise if I have offended you.


If more people do as you have, it would broaden the forum and give far greater insight into real world performance. :)

You just need to post a few shots of the mountains to make it complete.

.
 
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