France new E-bike deristriction law 1 year in prison and a 30,000 Euro fine

https://www.matosvelo.fr/index.php?post/2974/debrider-un-vae-peut-desormais-vous-couter-un-an-de-prison&fbclid=IwAR3bC7Ia3lxAOnr_NcMVR41YEMW_WxCm30yublh4g4QSNHkDiIZIXyZXUT8

From last Christmas:

one year prison, 30,000 Euros fine for having a dongle on your bike in France.

two years prison, 30,000 Euros fine for importing, selling, renting or fitting a dongle.

 

Link.

I believe that several European countries allow S-pedelecs but I guess from the French law that it does not.

s-pedelecs (called speed bikes or speedelec) are legal in France but you have to get it registered, number plate, insured and you wear a helmet.

https://www.cyclable.com/267-speed-bike#category_description_full

s-pedelecs (called speed bikes or speedelec) are legal in France but you have to get it registered, number plate, insured and you wear a helmet.

https://www.cyclable.com/267-speed-bike#category_description_full

If the French allow s-pedelecs I would have thought it would be easier for riders to use those procedures than dongle an underpowered motor.

I am assuming that as s-pedelecs are legal then insurance is readily available & cheap, & that the process of registration is quick & probably tax exempt. I also guess that s-pedelec cycle helmets are legal, rather than having to use motorbike helmets.

From last Christmas:

one year prison, 30,000 Euros fine for having a dongle on your bike in France.

two years prison, 30,000 Euros fine for importing, selling, renting or fitting a dongle.

 

Link.

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Excellent, just what we need asap.

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s-pedelecs (called speed bikes or speedelec) are legal in France but you have to get it registered, number plate, insured and you wear a helmet.

 

Legal in the UK too, and probably most countries, with the above restrictions. Our registration etc procedures are probably more stringent than the French ones and far more stringent than the German and Dutch ones.

 

And of course in most countries a registered s-pedelec cannot be ridden on cycle paths or shared paths, so not all good news.

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Legal in the UK too, and probably most countries, with the above restrictions. Our registration etc procedures are probably more stringent than the French ones and far more stringent than the German and Dutch ones.

 

And of course in most countries a registered s-pedelec cannot be ridden on cycle paths or shared paths, so not all good news.

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I was making the assumption that France has specific s-pedelec laws.

 

As I understand it in the UK we have to fit s-pedelecs into moped legislation - hence the virtual impossibility of registering self builds.

 

I thought some European countries had a specific s-pedelec law that made the process easy?

I was making the assumption that France has specific s-pedelec laws.

 

As I understand it in the UK we have to fit s-pedelecs into moped legislation - hence the virtual impossibility of registering self builds.

 

I thought some European countries had a specific s-pedelec law that made the process easy?

 

Germany, Denmark and the Netherlands have, the latter though making the regulations tougher later. I don't know about France's legal conditions since for a while they resisted having s-pedelecs.

 

While it's tougher for self builds here, I doubt it's as difficult as it once was now that EU s-pedelec certificates of conformity are accepted.

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From last Christmas:

one year prison, 30,000 Euros fine for having a dongle on your bike in France.

two years prison, 30,000 Euros fine for importing, selling, renting or fitting a dongle.

 

Link.

I like the fact that the seller is also targeted, it's hopeless trying to stop folk using illegal stuff unless it's also illegal to sell it. I would like to see this law apply to sellers of any illegal items.

Dave.

There are two Bosch service centres in Bristol. One has a prominent ad for a wide range of dongles. How do they keep they service centre contract with Bosch whilst derestricting Bosch motors?

The whole legal situation is a piss take.

 

 

Darren

 

PS Leaving work saturday morning at 5am I had some 'verbals' about my bike light (volt 1600) being too bright, from someone on an escooter with no lights. Another piss take.

Where's my yellow vest?

Vive Les Gilet Jaunes! ;-)

I'm glad France takes road safety seriously:

Road safety in France

https://en.francevelotourisme.com/tips-and-advices/road-safety-in-france

If cycling by night or in darkness, it is compulsory to wear a reflective jacket famous gilet jaune and have effective lights. On greenways, give pedestrians priority and signal to them in advance that you're passing. Wear a well-fitting helmet."

 

Be safe, falls hurt & can injure you, faster you go, the harder the impact .

Ouch! :-(

Or just hire an e-scooter :-)

There are two Bosch service centres in Bristol. One has a prominent ad for a wide range of dongles. How do they keep they service centre contract with Bosch whilst derestricting Bosch motors?

Maybe because Bosch aren't aware of what they're doing?

You can drive a mini-car in France without a licence. They reduced the age to 14 a few years back as a safer alternative to kids riding mopeds or s-pedelecs https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-35210572

I like the fact that the seller is also targeted, it's hopeless trying to stop folk using illegal stuff unless it's also illegal to sell it. I would like to see this law apply to sellers of any illegal items.

Dave.

 

That would mean companies like BAC and Vickers and arms traders resident and conducting their business here? They make and/or sell war planes, missiles, drones, field guns, nuclear missile submarines and every kind of gun and tank.

 

This among other reasons is why we don't stop the sale of things that are illegal to use, sorting out the legitimate from the illegal is impossible. France has the same problem, since they are one of the world's number major source of armaments.

 

Only controlling the end use with law is possible, and even that is difficult.

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That would mean companies like BAC and Vickers and arms traders resident and conducting their business here? They make and/or sell war planes, missiles, drones, field guns, nuclear missile submarines and every kind of gun and tank.

 

This among other reasons is why we don't stop the sale of things that are illegal to use, sorting out the legitimate from the illegal is impossible. France has the same problem, since they are one of the world's number major source of armaments.

 

Only controlling the end use with law is possible, and even that is difficult.

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There are laws preventing shops sells weapons to all and sundry in this country and I presume that also applies to arms dealers and arms manufacturers selling in this country.

There are laws preventing shops sells weapons to all and sundry in this country and I presume that also applies to arms dealers and arms manufacturers selling in this country.

What do you disagree with there flecc?

There are laws preventing shops sells weapons to all and sundry in this country and I presume that also applies to arms dealers and arms manufacturers selling in this country.

 

Not so, there is no law preventing such sales. A registered arms dealer can sell any kind of guns for example, the onus is all on the user having permission to use the weapons, and that is where the bans are. The only restriction on the arms dealer is that by law he has to keep any such weapons securely stored.

 

Of course if a registered arms dealer persists in selling to unlicenced users, the police will act to remove his registration, but that of course is shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted.

 

The only near blanket sales ban I know of is that for illegal drugs where most trading is banned, but not all.

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What do you disagree with there flecc?

 

You responded too quickly for my typing, see above.

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Not so, there is no law preventing such sales. A registered arms dealer can sell any kind of guns for example, the onus is all on the user having permission to use the weapons, and that is where the bans are. The only restriction on the arms dealer is that by law he has to keep any such weapons securely stored.

 

Of course if a registered arms dealer persists in selling to unlicenced users, the police will act to remove his registration, but that of course is shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted.

 

The only near blanket sales ban I know of is that for illegal drugs where most trading is banned, but not all.

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You're right I stand corrected.

 

But there seem to be plenty of items that are illegal to import and presumably sell (and I stand to be corrected again) such as asbestos, food related items containing lead, unlicensed radio transmitters, certain plants, animals and drugs and many more

 

I tried using Google to find a list but this is the closest I could find

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/524568/withdrawn_document_restricted-prohibited-goods.pdf

You're right I stand corrected.

 

But there seem to be plenty of items that are illegal to import and presumably sell (and I stand to be corrected again) such as asbestos, food related items containing lead, unlicensed radio transmitters, certain plants, animals and drugs and many more

 

I tried using Google to find a list but this is the closest I could find

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/524568/withdrawn_document_restricted-prohibited-goods.pdf

 

Yes there are import bans which by inference ban sales, but the primary barrier is the law against import, not sale.

 

For example, there is nothing to stop you in the UK buying a load of asbestos from a country that sells it and then selling it on to a country that has no ban, reaping a profit that you can enjoy in the UK with no law broken. Similar happens all the time.

 

In fact we have individuals and companies who grow cannabis elsewhere and sell it elsewhere, all legally.

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Yes there are import bans which by inference ban sales, but the primary barrier is the law against import, not sale.

 

For example, there is nothing to stop you in the UK buying a load of asbestos from a country that sells it and then selling it on to a country that has no ban, reaping a profit that you can enjoy in the UK with no law broken. Similar happens all the time.

 

In fact we have individuals and companies who grow cannabis elsewhere and sell it elsewhere, all legally.

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But we're discussing possible restrictions on selling illegal ebikes in the UK, not overseas.

But we're discussing possible restrictions on selling illegal ebikes in the UK, not overseas.

 

Not restrictions, a ban, and I've shown that our custom is to only control usage, not to ban sales due to the complications it causes, and there is a precedent for this.

 

You may have seen my posts about the 1835 Highway Act that banned all and any form of motor vehicle. That no doubt seemed like a smart move at the time to control such things from entering road use, and we've kept it in force for that advantage.

 

But what a rod it's made for our own backs. Ever since then, every new type of motor vehicle entering the market has to have at least two new items of law drafted and passed by both Houses of Parliament.

 

On construction there has to be either new type approval law provision or an exemption from type approval, each highly detailed with what constitutes the vehicle type or the grounds for exemption.

 

There also has to be new law permitting the use of that specific vehicle type in order that it doesn't breach the 1835 act. And both have to be updated from time to time to accommodate technical and social developments.

 

You can see how complicated it can be to have a blanket ban on supply but then provide for all the legal exceptions. It's far easier to just control usage, so that is what parliament does.

 

Although I've given strong backing in an earlier post for having that French style law, I don't believe we'll get either since we have it all covered already. We just aren't enforcing the existing law, so there's no reason to believe we'd enforce a different one.

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Edited March 2, 20206 yr by flecc

Enjoying the interesting tangent things have gone off on (imho). But wasn't the gist of the thread about the ethicality of delimiting ebikes and/or the penalties accruing?

 

Is it time to drop in a line about why other vehicles are not limited to the posted max speed?

(stands back having lit blue touch paper ! )

Is it time to drop in a line about why other vehicles are not limited to the posted max speed?

 

No, because the drivers are tested and approved, insured to compensate for any harm, and are identifiable and traceable.

 

It's precisely because pedelec riders are not that the severe restrictions have to be applied to the vehicle.

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