Fooled in purchasing Wisper 905SE Sport old model

[Wisper Bikes]

Old Wisper

This is a really tricky one.

Our records show that we only supplied full price 2009 bikes to Electric Bike Shed and none of the serial numbers correspond to this bike. I have tried to call Andy and will try again later today or Andy please give me a call on 07733226906.

I can only speak from experience and Andy has always been very honest and straight forward in his dealings with us, so we find this matter a little perplexing. Douglas informs me that EBS is closing down and has not bought any bikes for several months.

If you put aside the possible misrepresentation which is difficult for us to comment on, I think the important points to remember are 1. The bike was bought at a fair price. 2. We have offered a full Warranty on all the parts including the battery. The bike has now been registered the Warranty is in force. We are also offering our new updated and longer term Warranty rather than the one that was in force when the bike was made.

I really don't think we can do much more?

Best regards

David

 

[vassilis]

Thanks David. As I said many times, I appreciate your assistance in this. You are keeping the client service standards quite high for other manufacturers.

I only requested the price in order to establish the difference in the RRP of the two models at the time EBS got hold of this bike. I assume that EBS did not buy it at the same price they bought the 2009 models, I will have to wait therefore your conversation with Andy. Obviously my (monetary) dispute with EBS has nothing to do with Wisper.

EBS closing down probably gives a good indication for their entire attitude in this case though. I hope they will send me the invoice and parts I am expecting before shutting down.

P.S. Am I the only to believe EBS and Oxygen are somehow connected? Not only the layout and wording of their websites is the same, the "Electric Bikes" link on the Oxygen website leads directly to the EBS website. Interesting though Andy (of EBS), despite defaming Oxygen bikes to make his point against me, has posted a triumphant review of the Oxygen Emate XC (Wisper clone) (http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bike-reviews/3839-oxygen-emate-xc-bike-review.html), like if he is an independent reviewer. He is even suggesting that the Oxygen is a better bike than the Heinzmann Estelle. How would you call this indirect advertisement? I can think of some words, but these are probably inappropriate for this forum.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Price

Hi Vassilis

The price was £1,199.00 including VAT at 17.5%.

Re Oxygen I totally agree with you, there was somthing very strange going on. However as soon as Andy saw a real Wisper he decided to ditch the inferior Oxygen.

There have been a few clones now, flattering but also a little annoying. They are simply not as good as the real thing with cheap components and tatty frames. As I have pointed out in the past one can buy a Wisper 905eco for £999.00 or a Wisper 906xc Tourer for £2,399.00 they look very similar on a computer screen but the cost of the components on the 906xc is almost three times that of the components on a 905eco.


905eco


906xc Tourer

All the best

David

 

[Andy_82]

P.S. Am I the only to believe EBS and Oxygen are somehow connected? Not only the layout and wording of their websites is the same, the "Electric Bikes" link on the Oxygen website leads directly to the EBS website. Interesting though Andy (of EBS), despite defaming Oxygen bikes to make his point against me, has posted a triumphant review of the Oxygen Emate XC (Wisper clone) (http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bike-reviews/3839-oxygen-emate-xc-bike-review.html), like if he is an independent reviewer. He is even suggesting that the Oxygen is a better bike than the Heinzmann Estelle. How would you call this indirect advertisement? I can think of some words, but these are probably inappropriate for this forum.

Vassilis,

I have kindly made a public response to our dispute from my personal profile while awaiting for EBS account. This does not allow you to over my personal posts and certainly going OFF TOPIC here. While you mentioned that I will make a public comment and another clarification but please kindly be aware this is my personal response, not the EBS response.

Firstly - YES there is a link between the Bike Shed and Oxygen Bicycles. We are all mates. This is such a small industry that most of us knows each other.

Secondly - LOOK WHEN THAT REVIEW WAS PUBLISHED!!!!
When it was published by me the Electric Bike Shed still did not exist. I was indeed one of the first customers who bought Oxygen Emate XC and I say that once again. I did not say that bike is bad, I think it is a great bike with great value for money.

Thirdly - Oxygen Emate was one of the first bikes I had a pleasure to ride with . After getting the first bike i thought to get into industry this is how I got in touch with Oxygen Bicycles. I got indeed a lot of advice from them on how to set up a business so partially this is thanks to them why I'm in this industry.

Fourtly - Websites. Oh yes. The elements of the EBS and Oxygen Bicycles might be similar. I was getting first design tips from the same designer as Oxygen Bicycles website. This how I got my first web experience. Today I design the sites myself and also help some other businesses in a web design.

Five - Your indirect advertisement - First electric bike I rode in my life was Heinzmann Estelle, second one was Oxygen Emate. The review was published can't remember when as it was such long time ago and definitely before setting up Electric Bike Shed. If you would ever ride Heizmann motor you would know how good they are and how HEAVY and NOISY they are.

Now compare the weight:
Heinzmann motor approx 5.5kg
Shuzhou Bafang 8FUn - 3kg

Compare the noise:
Heinzmann - lovely motor but makes a noise comparable to the electric drill
8FUN - So silent that is hard to hear

Performance wise - Heinzmann is stronger and has a better climbing ability but this is not the most important factor here and my review was based on the personal experience before setting up electric bike shed. I think anyone who tried both motors would confirm the same facts. Facts are facts there is not much you can do with them.

I almost finished and last thing. I made the response from my personal profile while we are awaiting for the activation of the account. NOW you go over my posts and offend me the way you make your assumptions. If you want to play Mr Sherloc Holmes do it your way but do not go over my personal profile. I'm a member here to enjoy reading others members posts and NOT to have a public profile review by Sherloc Holmes, simply stick to your topic problem and go off of me. Good Day!!!

 

[Andy_82]

Douglas informs me that EBS is closing down and has not bought any bikes for several months.

Hi David,

Looks like Douglas is not well informed, our last order with you is from 27th of Oct 09. This is just a little above 2 calendar months and its not the retailers interest to buy large stocks for winter. Does the period of 2 months for not making any orders mean the retailer is closing down for you?????

I would be very grateful if you confirm these sort of informations with the first source (us) before making any future comments. Thank you David

 

[Andy_82]

The price was £1,199.00 including VAT at 17.5%.

Whoooff, £1,199.00 inc VAT??????????. I just found £1,274.00 inc VAT in the old price list effective from July 08 when the bike was actually brought in to the country! Do i have a wrong price list?

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Closing Down

Hi Andy

I think this would better dealt with off the forum, however as you have bought it up here I assume you would like me to answer your points.

1. Douglas told me you were closing and you wanted to sell your website. As a matter of interest I was subsequently told by another Wisper dealer that you had offered to sell your site to them too.

2. We agree with the date of your last purchase, however as you had bought several bikes during the previous 4 months then none during the last two, coupled with your statement to Douglas that you were closing and your offer to a Wisper dealer to sell them your site, I think it is fair I assumed that you were actually closing.

I do apologies if my assumption was incorrect. If this is now the case I am delighted that you are still going to be about and that this airing on the Forum has confirmed your intentions.

All the best

David

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Wooff

I took the price from our recommended dealer price for May 2008 when the bike was sold. This was taken from my archive price lists and I may have made an error of £75.00. I will check.

All the best David

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Andy is correct

Yes the prices went up at that time by £75.00. It was £1199.00 in May and £1,274.00 in July.

All the best

David

 

[vassilis]

All that is is very nice Andy. Do not get angry. Going over your posts is a facility provided by this forum. It is not illegal like misrepresentation. (Still waiting for that invoice, toolkit and LED light though. Any hint as to what happened to these?).

Personal account or not, you were the only person I exchanged emails with all the time, so for me YOU represent Electric Bike Shed. After all aren't you the owner of Electric Bike Shed? If I am Sherlock Holmes than you are Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde.

As for the rest of your post (I know I am going off topic again), I do not intend to make a point, but you probably got too many design tips from Oxygen's website as the following paragraph is found in the About Us section of Electric Bike Shed's website:

"At Oxygen we aim to promote the healthy lifestyle and most effective form of transport. We promote electric bicycles not only as form of pleasure but also as fastest and the most cost effective transport solution. We believe in bikes and their power which could significantly reduce human carbon footprint."

Electric Bike Shed: About us

About us: Oxygen Bicycles

P.S. ECO Transport Solutions Ltd. (EBS) was incorporated on 18/06/2008 Your review of Oxygen was on 28/3/2009.

 

[Andy_82]

Hi Andy
We agree with the date of your last purchase, however as you had bought several bikes during the previous 4 months then none during the last two, coupled with your statement to Douglas that you were closing and your offer to a Wisper dealer to sell them your site, I think it is fair I assumed that you were actually closing.

I do apologies if my assumption was incorrect. If this is now the case I am delighted that you are still going to be about and that this airing on the Forum has confirmed your intentions.

All the best

David

Hi David,

I would certainly prefer to go off the forum here but as long as Vassilis is making his untruth assumptions about my person I will be defending myself on-line. I would really prefer to end this up as its all very tiring and definitely very time consuming. BTW The site was for sale for a very short period due to personal problems decided to sell, once I sorted out my problems I said clearly to Douglas that is not for sale any more so I don't understand why is saying that to you. I hope we can finish this thread soon as too many unrelated OFF TOPICS been mentioned here from the original problem. Will talk to you shortly

 

[vassilis]

Whoooff, £1,199.00 inc VAT??????????. I just found £1,274.00 inc VAT in the old price list effective from July 08 when the bike was actually brought in to the country! Do i have a wrong price list?

OK. Then you should refund £1,449.00 - £1,274.00 = £175 + £19,95 (cost of the Sigma computer I wouldn't purchase had you provided the original computer). TOTAL = £194,95

I am not even calculating the depreciation of the bicycle due to:
A. Being an expo bike
B. A newer model being available

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Talk

Guys for what it's worth, I would think you would get this sorted more quickly if you picked up the phone and talked to each other or if that would prove too expensive use Skype.

As you know, you have our support but I don't think you are getting anywhere quickly here.

All the best

David

 

[eddieo]

This is shocking! and I feel very sorry for you........... I think you have made a mistake keeping the bike, for a few hundred more you could get a 2009-2010 bike. if taking legal action they would I believe have had to refund the postage if successful anyway. and package would be tracked so they could not deny getting it, but understand your concern regards a refund from the shower EBS appear to be.......

if unsure re battery get it tested. if no serial number and can not be confirmed it is the bikes battery this could be another can of worms!

read up on battery's, testing & conditioning, there are a lot of threads on the subject. the indicators on handlebars are not that great an indicator of state of charge, the lights recover after a while. also read up on range a lot of threads on this subject as well. I think approx 40 miles is a more realistic figure (me -17 stone - not fit) Lance Armstrong would easily double this I guess - it is all relative

 

[vassilis]

Eddieo, you are absolutely right here. Unfortunately distance is a drawback here.
I really cannot trust EBS at all. Despite all the the other things, what conclusion can one make for not receiving an invoice for a purchased item. It is absolutely absurd.

David suggested we sort things out between us, but I don't even get any reply to my emails. As you know, sh** happens!

As far as the battery is concerned, I will have it checked at the next charge. Wisper already confirmed the battery is covered under their warranty, so if there are any problems with it I will send it back in exchange for a new one. At 14 stones, it is probably unreasonable to have only the red light left after 15 miles regardless of how accurate the indicator is. Also, as I do not know what use of the battery has been made so far, I am also not sure whether a I should have it fully conditioned or not.

 

[Mussels]

Just checking - when you say just the red light on, is that at a standstill with no power applied?
If I did 15 miles on throttle only then I think the amber light would still be on, I've never tried it but I have had some lazy trips.

 

[Old Timer]

This is shocking! and I feel very sorry for you........... I think you have made a mistake keeping the bike, for a few hundred more you could get a 2009-2010 bike. if taking legal action they would I believe have had to refund the postage if successful anyway. and package would be tracked so they could not deny getting it, but understand your concern regards a refund from the shower EBS appear to be.......

if unsure re battery get it tested. if no serial number and can not be confirmed it is the bikes battery this could be another can of worms!

read up on battery's, testing & conditioning, there are a lot of threads on the subject. the indicators on handlebars are not that great an indicator of state of charge, the lights recover after a while. also read up on range a lot of threads on this subject as well. I think approx 40 miles is a more realistic figure (me -17 stone - not fit) Lance Armstrong would easily double this I guess - it is all relative

I also feel for you. Try not to let this put you off because from what I read you will still have a good bike. Sometimes taking legal action can consume you completely and quite often getting judgement in your favour is only the beginning.

You have been taken under whispers wing by the sound of it (other companies might well have ignored you) So it looks like you can get the new battery if needed and the few other small items shouldn`t be much of a problem.

I must say that till recently I have viewed the better end of the market as maybe jumping on the band wagon a bit as far as pricing goes but must say that Whisper seems always to openly talk to customers and always tend to step in which certainly would put my mind at rest.(which is not to say that there aren`t other decent manufacturers around at any price) Peace of mind can`t be priced. Good customer service costs money as does using decent components.

I`ll certainly be considering Whisper in the future. My advice(for what it`s worth) is to accept Whispers offer of help and try to put it behind you. It will leave a taste in your mouth for a while but given a chance (and with maybe a new battery) you`ll start to enjoy your cycling on what sounds to be a good bike with a solid back up.

 

[fishingpaul]

It is often said that if an offer sounds too good to be true then it probably is,a full third discount is big for a current model of electric bike,it still sounds like you have a very good bike for just £999 and with full wisper back up,i would think if the same bike as yours and wisper back up were available it would soon sell out,i know it is a little dissapointing to find you did not get the absolute bargain you thought you were getting but its not like you have ended up with your fingers burnt,whenever i try and buy cheap it seems to end badly,last example was instead of buying an ezee controller for £125 I paid £28 for a chinese controller it lacked power, so i had to buy another from the usa for £70 then i got charged customs £15,so to try and save a few quid resulted in weeks of waiting for delivery, lots of searching for wiring connections advice and many hours of trying different wiring permutations,anyway the moral of my story is if i had been happy to pay the full price for a controller to begin with it, would have been so much easier and so much less of a headache,i now have to live with no battery power meter and no use of the supplied 36v lights as the cheaper controller have no connections for these,however i do have the bonus that my latest controller gives extra amps and pulls like a train and i am now content with it,i think you should look for the positive side of your deal and try to enjoy what you have.

 

[keithhazel]

Eddieo, you are absolutely right here. Unfortunately distance is a drawback here.
I really cannot trust EBS at all. Despite all the the other things, what conclusion can one make for not receiving an invoice for a purchased item. It is absolutely absurd.

David suggested we sort things out between us, but I don't even get any reply to my emails. As you know, sh** happens!

As far as the battery is concerned, I will have it checked at the next charge. Wisper already confirmed the battery is covered under their warranty, so if there are any problems with it I will send it back in exchange for a new one. At 14 stones, it is probably unreasonable to have only the red light left after 15 miles regardless of how accurate the indicator is. Also, as I do not know what use of the battery has been made so far, I am also not sure whether a I should have it fully conditioned or not.

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while distance is a drawback here as you say it does not stop you getting what you pay for, i saw a programme on telly last week which stated that if you are not happy about a product you buy on the internet, even if you just didnt like the colour you can send it back and they even have to refund you your original postage you paid,if what you get is not what you paid for they also have to refund you the postage you pay to send it back to them...

while its fantastic for whisper to confirm you WILL get the two year warranty on the battery,im thinking along with the others that if the bike is already two years old then you are not going to enjoy the powerful experience/range you should from your day 1 and its all going to be downhill from here (not literally or you would not have bought an electric bike in the first place )

even if you get the money difference you ask for you are settling for something you would not have wanted in the first place, if it was me with my experiences of buying cheap items over a vast range over many years, i have found out cheap is not cheap but just second best sometimes and a regret the rest of the time, i would find the right legal steps to take and send it back and get my full refund postage costs included and then bite the bullet and pay full pops and buy direct from whisper,as i have NEVER read a bad review of the bike or of whisper's David on here...eat bread and dripping for a while but love the ride for long after you can afford jam again...
at the end of the day, its night

 

[eddieo]

Amen to that!....... I concur absolutely.