Folding electric - Wisper 806 or Brompton?

[AndyOfTheSouth]

The Crystalyte website refers to a motor which is no longer in production and redirects instead to another which weighs 5.5 kg. Both that and the original offer a minimum rim size of 20 inches. The Brompton has a 16 inch wheel.

The Heinzmann is certainly an excellent and powerful motor, but it is heavy. The small wheel of the Brompton means that a relatively low torque motor can provide very good hill climbing. This is why the Tongxin is such a good match. The Heinzmann is not suitable because its torque advantage is not needed, but its weight is an unacceptable penalty.

 

[jerrysimon]

Ben, Jerry's conversion looks ideal for you. See this Post

Thanks. The only caveat I would make is that you would probably need a bigger battery than my small 2.3Ah 1kg one. I would still try and keep the battery weight down as low as possible as this all adds to the overall carried weight when hopping on and off trains.

Regards

Jerry

 

[JuicyBike]

Perhaps Ben could create a customised bag to use his existing battery. Jerry, is yours 36V?

 

[indalo]

Perhaps Ben could create a customised bag to use his existing battery. Jerry, is yours 36V?

Ben and Jerry......now where have I heard that before?

Very cool Bob,
Indalo

 

[jerrysimon]

If Ben is interested then I am happy for him to pm me.

The battery required is 36v. I have a few battery options and a spare wheel with motor etc if he is interested. I am also sure if he wished we could set something up so he could use his existing battery.

I probably should not have put this in the thread and rather should have used classifieds

Regards

Jerry

 

[cwah]

The Crystalyte website refers to a motor which is no longer in production and redirects instead to another which weighs 5.5 kg. Both that and the original offer a minimum rim size of 20 inches. The Brompton has a 16 inch wheel.

The Heinzmann is certainly an excellent and powerful motor, but it is heavy. The small wheel of the Brompton means that a relatively low torque motor can provide very good hill climbing. This is why the Tongxin is such a good match. The Heinzmann is not suitable because its torque advantage is not needed, but its weight is an unacceptable penalty.

They have the 74mm motor:
Crystalyte Europe :: Motors :: G series Crystalyte motor :: G series motor front dropout 74mm

Last time I contacted them they planned to have a kit for brompton for the g209. Not sure now if they are still planning that.

Otherwise it's still possible to lace the motor, but it still weight 3,9kg. So far far from a tongxin or cute motor. And for a premium price

 

[jerrysimon]

Ben and Jerry......now where have I heard that before?

Very cool Bob,
Indalo

That was lost on me ? lol

Regards

Jerry

 

[neptune]

Ben and Jerry were a couple of guys in the USA who started a small ice cream business. It has grown to be one of the top brands.

 

[jerrysimon]

Thanks Neptune. That was REALLY lost on me lol

Regards

Jerry

 

[benjy_a]

They have the 74mm motor:
Crystalyte Europe :: Motors :: G series Crystalyte motor :: G series motor front dropout 74mm

Last time I contacted them they planned to have a kit for brompton for the g209. Not sure now if they are still planning that.

Otherwise it's still possible to lace the motor, but it still weight 3,9kg. So far far from a tongxin or cute motor. And for a premium price

Do you know if this crystalyte G series motor will actually fit the brompton? I cannot find anything about this on the Internet or anybody who has done it.

This motor may actually suit my needs quite well; I know it's heavy (0.8kg heavier than the Bafang) however the weight doesn't bother me much (as discussed earlier in the thread).

I'm wondering if it will give me the torque and acceleration I want with a 20A controller whilst being silent and reliable.

 

[benjy_a]

Hi Bob,

The bike is going very well! Has been used for daily commuting since I last saw you up until a month ago when I came up to London! Same job, different location. My commute now involves trains for which the Juicy unfortunately cannot be used. I will probably end up selling it.

As you can see from this thread; I am tending to compare every bike I go on to the performance of the Juicy which seems perhaps to be unfair with the smaller wheeled bikes but I guess that's just what I'm used to. I am now wavering back towards going light and quiet with the Nano conversion...a test ride has been arranged which I look forward to.

Hope you are well and that business is good!

Ben

Ben, Jerry's conversion looks ideal for you. See this Post

It would be good to hear more about the latest miles on your Juicy Sport. How's the bike performing?
Looks like your Job has changed a lot since we last spoke. Would be good to catch up.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Have just returned from the Shanghai Cycle show,there were a number of 10-12 kg folding bikes with magnetic drive but these felt toy like and I must say that I wouldn't go 1 mile on them.
We have just taken delivery of our new Kudos 'Secret' model,I think the 20" wheels are about the minimum for any decent length ride. I spent today having a long ride on the 'Secret' bike and it felt nippy and smooth,the throttle seemed logical on this bike. The weight of 18kg is about the mimimum that can be achieved without resorting to expensive materials or components.
At £725.00 this bike must be worth a look,the ride is honestly impressive for a small wheeled bike.
Dave
KudosCycles

 

[JuicyBike]

Hi Bob,

The bike is going very well! Has been used for daily commuting since I last saw you up until a month ago when I came up to London! Same job, different location. My commute now involves trains for which the Juicy unfortunately cannot be used. I will probably end up selling it.

As you can see from this thread; I am tending to compare every bike I go on to the performance of the Juicy which seems perhaps to be unfair with the smaller wheeled bikes but I guess that's just what I'm used to. I am now wavering back towards going light and quiet with the Nano conversion...a test ride has been arranged which I look forward to.

Hope you are well and that business is good!

Ben

Seems a very long way to go to get a free pass to the Olympics! I don't think our folder would fit your criteria. Thanks for the update on the Sport.

Pleased to see it setting a standard!

Business is fun and everyday brings something new and interesting, on all sorts of levels.
Cheers and good luck with the new job.

 

[jerrysimon]

We have just taken delivery of our new Kudos 'Secret' model,I think the 20" wheels are about the minimum for any decent length ride. I spent today having a long ride on the 'Secret' bike and it felt nippy and smooth,the throttle seemed logical on this bike. The weight of 18kg is about the mimimum that can be achieved without resorting to expensive materials or components.

I ride 10.25miles a day round commute on my 16" wheeled Brompton

Whilst I think your offering has its application for maybe motohomes/caravans/boots of cars etc, I think lugging a 18kg bike on an off busy commuting trains or on the London underground just would not work.

Regards

Jerry

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Hi BCM, thanks for the glowing report and image!

I do agree though, there are lighter and easier folders available for popping on and off trains. Although I take my 26" 905sel with me when traveling by train and have absolutely no problems, I would not take it during the rush hour!

The 806Alpino is ideal for motorhomes, boats, cars and if you don't have much space at home to store your bike. But due to it's very solid construction not for the rush hour.

All the best

David

 

[benjy_a]

Following a LOT of research I have come to a decision on what I'm going to do.

I already have available a 20A Infineon controller with Cycle Analyst and a 36v battery. I am going to build myself an eBrompton using the new Crystalyte G209. This whole conversion will only cost me about £300 and a brand new Brompton M3L around £450 on Ride to Work scheme. I spoke to Crystalyte today and their Brompton kit is supplied with a 12A controller so my Infineon will be at the top end of legal (may have to limit the current with the Cycle Analyst!). Apparently the motor will be fine at 20A. They will also build the motor into an official Brompton rim for me and it will go straight onto the forks with no modifications required.

I know it's a heavy motor and some may think this a shame to put it on a Brompton. However, I will still be able to fold it small for the train, the battery will be easily detachable in a front bag (probably use the EWC converted T-bag with power connections). I will also have superb power and hill climbing ability. Finally, it will be very easy to put the bike back to standard should I so wish.

I will start a new thread with the build when I have all the bits! Bike voucher applied for and order sent off to Crystalyte today!

 

[jerrysimon]

Sounds like a plan. I look forward to reading and following your progress

Regards

Jerry

 

[cwah]

Quite interested on the performance of the G209.

20A shouldn't be much for this 4 kg direct drive motor. You're only at "700W". I believe you can even go to 1000W continuous. So even 25A should be ok.

I have a similar motor (conhismotor mini hub), it weight 4.6kg and is direct drive. It handle the watts quite well, but it's sooo power hungry. Interested in this G209 motor efficiency

 

[benjy_a]

Quite interested on the performance of the G209.

20A shouldn't be much for this 4 kg direct drive motor. You're only at "700W". I believe you can even go to 1000W continuous. So even 25A should be ok.

I have a similar motor (conhismotor mini hub), it weight 4.6kg and is direct drive. It handle the watts quite well, but it's sooo power hungry. Interested in this G209 motor efficiency

I do also find it interesting as to what power and performance this motor is capable of but this project has to stay legal. I also need at least 15 miles range and don't want to carry more than a 10ah battery so there are restrictions.

Theoretically I believe the motor could take 48v at 20A quite happily and produce a constant 1kw. This of course being 4 times legal limit and probably 25—30 mph.... on a 16" folding bike I don't think so

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk 2

 

[cwah]

If you're planning to stay legal, you can go for a Tongxin (max 10-15 mph) or a Cute 85/100 motor. (max 15-20mph)

They are geared so more efficient on acceleration (Better than direct drive if you have hills and lot of start and stops)

So you would have gain on efficiency (unless you have long flat road) and weight (around 2 kg less)