Folder recommendations

[Peter.Bridge]

Doesn't meet the OPs requirements but I wondered about this as a donor folding bike for a front hub conversion. Aluminium with steel forks. You'd probably want to upgrade the disc brakes to hydraulic and change the rear sprocket to 11-28 or 11-32.

Pardon our interruption...

www.ebay.co.uk

eta - I had a look at the Grin simulator and if I have put the parameters in correctly an AKM 75 conversion would get you up a 14% hill (which suprised me) with either a 36V or 48V battery - it would be quite a light conversion - 13 kg + 1.5kg for the motor and 1.8kg for a 36V 10Ah bag battery

 

[Bogmonster666]

I'm back on the folder hunt again after the death of my TSDZ2 - that should get fixed next week I hope but I need another bike as a spare anyway. A hub motor probably does make more sense and the correct motor in a 20 inch wheel will still provide a lot of hill climbing potential.

I like the TSDZ2 but the reliability is a downer and its particularly prone to water ingress - and it's not always possible to plan your life around the UK weather.

Moving my TSDZ2 to a folder is still an option and although a small chainring would make for slower progress it's not terrible. My current bike has 26" wheels and a dual 34t, 42t chainrings. A 46t chainring in 20" wheels is exactly the same ratio as the 34t on 20" wheels and that gets me up to ~18+ mph comfortably. On a folder for short rides that's fine. Wouldn't be suitable for main bike as I'm often travelling at well over 20mph (and that's just using legs before anyone asks).

I guess if I go down that route, would then be in the market for a replacement main bike, again though, needs to cope with 16% hills. That's certainly at the upper end for many hub motors in normal sized wheels. Not sure if a Gran Camino would cope and that's towards the top of what I want to spend.

Tbh, I am tempted to just try and get fitter and get a bike with adequate gear range and use my legs. I have cycled up said hill under my own steam, but it requires careful pacing with my feeble lungs. .

 

[Peter.Bridge]

I'm back on the folder hunt again after the death of my TSDZ2 - that should get fixed next week I hope but I need another bike as a spare anyway. A hub motor probably does make more sense and the correct motor in a 20 inch wheel will still provide a lot of hill climbing potential.

I like the TSDZ2 but the reliability is a downer and its particularly prone to water ingress - and it's not always possible to plan your life around the UK weather.

Moving my TSDZ2 to a folder is still an option and although a small chainring would make for slower progress it's not terrible. My current bike has 26" wheels and a dual 34t, 42t chainrings. A 46t chainring in 20" wheels is exactly the same ratio as the 34t on 20" wheels and that gets me up to ~18+ mph comfortably. On a folder for short rides that's fine. Wouldn't be suitable for main bike as I'm often travelling at well over 20mph (and that's just using legs before anyone asks).

I guess if I go down that route, would then be in the market for a replacement main bike, again though, needs to cope with 16% hills. That's certainly at the upper end for many hub motors in normal sized wheels. Not sure if a Gran Camino would cope and that's towards the top of what I want to spend.

Tbh, I am tempted to just try and get fitter and get a bike with adequate gear range and use my legs. I have cycled up said hill under my own steam, but it requires careful pacing with my feeble lungs. .

You don't need a folder to go up 16% hills if that is your only reason for getting one. I have an ancient Carrera Vulcan with 26" wheels and road tyres with the very commonplace 48v Bafang G020 rear hub kit. (E.g https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/394203165631?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=gcuwhq0ktpi&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=e7wJGK-DRD6&var=662716740592&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY)

Max no load speed is around 45km/h and the advertised max unresticted speed is 40km/h (easily achievable). It came with an 18 amp speed based controller but I changed to the Woosh 15 amp power based controller with torque sensor. I am 105 kg and get up here (one of my regular rides)with a bit of peddling effort :

Carlton Bank

Distance 1.2 miles Max Gradient The gradient is variable all the way, at its steepest it is probably around 20-25% Where do you find it? This climb takes you from the village of Carlton three miles…

clevelandwheelers.com

Eta

Woosh do a DWG22C 48V 60NM rear hub kit which will be an even better hill climber (heavier motor, lower no load speed)

Woosh hub kits | Electric Bike Conversion Kits from Woosh

Woosh range of hub kits with choice of front or rear hub motors. Convert your bike into an electric bike.

wooshbikes.co.uk

 

[Peter.Bridge]

I wondered about this as a donor folding bike with disc brakes
Aluminium Frame with hi tensile forks :

Pardon our interruption...

Not sure about rear hub conversion, others here would better advise, steel front forks would probably be ok for front hub conversion

 

[guerney]

It does appear there are not many steel framed 20" wheeled folding bikes with disc brakes out there, but here's one. Even if this apparently German shop is real, they might not ship to the UK, and I don't know anything about the "Compass" brand.

Compass folding bike 20 inch

The Compass 20-inch steel folding bike is a practical and compact bike with a wide range of uses. The 20-inch folding bike whee...

www.compass24.com

 

[guerney]

Not a recommendation, but this is a steel framed 20" wheeled folding electric bike with disc brakes, possibly with a ropey battery made of cheapo flammomatic Chinese cells:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fafrees-Electric-Bicycle-Folding-Battery/dp/B0CQJY98MY

 

[Bogmonster666]

You don't need a folder to go up 16% hills

Woosh do a DWG22C 48V 60NM rear hub kit which will be an even better hill climber (heavier motor, lower no load speed)

The reason for the folder is that it folds. I do a mixture of rides, the more utilitarian ones are to medical appointments, yoga classes, walk n beer with mates. All of these are ~12 mile round trip with a big hill on the way back. A folder would be convenient as easier to stash the bike somewhere safe. At the moment I have taken to locking my bike directly outside the police station.

Other rides are ~50 miles of generally hilly terrain for fun. I don’t want a folder for these and I want to get some exercise so the TSDZ2 works really well - when it works

Also keen to get Mrs BM on a bike and I think she would appreciate the upright folder riding position.

I nee 2 bikes also to have a spare in case of breakdown. One might as well be a folder.

I almost bought the above Woosh kit a year ago but opted for TSDZ2 instead as I thought it would suit my riding style and the hills better - also at the time the above motor was perpetually OOS. I don’t really have any functional complaints with the TSDZ2. I know there are hubs that will get me up steep hills but from previous experience many hub bikes will struggle. Was offered a woosh Camino very cheaply recently but a woosh confirmed this would have been underpowered. I used to have a Bafang 36v front hub many years ago and that would have struggled up one of my most frequent hills. It could do the 16% with a fair amount of rider input but that wasn’t sustainable over more than a short hill.

I’m going to repair the TSDZ2 for now and see if anything turns up

 

[Peter.Bridge]

The reason for the folder is that it folds. I do a mixture of rides, the more utilitarian ones are to medical appointments, yoga classes, walk n beer with mates. All of these are ~12 mile round trip with a big hill on the way back. A folder would be convenient as easier to stash the bike somewhere safe. At the moment I have taken to locking my bike directly outside the police station.

Wisper 806 20-Inch 2024 Electric Folding Bike

<p>The very latest version of our flagship folding electric bike, the Wisper 806 has received a number of additions to help you tailor your folding e-bike to your own personal requirements. The Wisper 806 folding ebike is the perfect option for campers, c

winstanleysbikes.co.uk

Possibly upgrade to one of the larger batteries ?

 

[Bogmonster666]

Wisper 806 20-Inch 2024 Electric Folding Bike

<p>The very latest version of our flagship folding electric bike, the Wisper 806 has received a number of additions to help you tailor your folding e-bike to your own personal requirements. The Wisper 806 folding ebike is the perfect option for campers, c

winstanleysbikes.co.uk

Possibly upgrade to one of the larger batteries ?

I am coming to the same conclusion, reading reviews this will easily manage 16% hills and ticks all the boxes. Well made, good uk support. Not sure I understood the bit about keeping upright when folded - does this just relate to long term storage or putting in boot of car?

 

[guerney]

I am coming to the same conclusion, reading reviews this will easily manage 16% hills and ticks all the boxes. Well made, good uk support. Not sure I understood the bit about keeping upright when folded - does this just relate to long term storage or putting in boot of car?

The 806 seems expensive for a hub motored bike. Personally, I wouldn't buy one. For this price I could convert at least two old folders, and with 19.2Ah/691Wh batteries. My conversion cost £909, and £809 was for the BBS01B kid-drive kit with 19.2Ah battery - it's a very capable conversion, much more capable of dragging stuff uphill than the 806. BBS01B mid drives don't suffer from rising damp like TSDZ2s.





This bike has the same frame as mine:

Second-Hand Bikes, Bicycles & Cycles for Sale in Congleton, Cheshire | Gumtree

Find great local deals on second-hand bikes, bicycles & cycles for sale in Congleton, Cheshire ✅ Shop hassle-free with Gumtree, your local buying & selling community.

www.gumtree.com

The only difficult part was removing the BB. Stuck because of galvanic corrosion, I think. You'll also need a programming cable.

 

[Bogmonster666]

The 806 seems expensive for a hub motored bike. Personally, I wouldn't buy one. For this price I could convert at least two old folders, and with 19.2Ah/691Wh batteries. My conversion cost £909, and £809 was for the BBS01B kid-drive kit with 19.2Ah battery - it's a very capable conversion, much more capable of dragging stuff uphill than the 806. BBS01B mid drives don't suffer from rising damp like TSDZ2s.


View attachment 58236


This bike has the same frame as mine:

Second-Hand Bikes, Bicycles & Cycles for Sale in Congleton, Cheshire | Gumtree

Find great local deals on second-hand bikes, bicycles & cycles for sale in Congleton, Cheshire ✅ Shop hassle-free with Gumtree, your local buying & selling community.

www.gumtree.com

The only difficult part was removing the BB. Stuck because of galvanic corrosion, I think. You'll also need a programming cable.

I hear you, but struggling to find a suitable folder with disc brakes. I am coming to terms with the idea of a hub motor. Buying pre-build wasn’t my 1st choice…I don’t need a massive battery as will still have the TSDZ2 mountain bike crapcycle for long rides - these are always pleasure / exercise so reliability is less important.

 

[guerney]

I hear you, but struggling to find a suitable folder with disc brakes. I am coming to terms with the idea of a hub motor. Buying pre-build wasn’t my 1st choice…I don’t need a massive battery as will still have the TSDZ2 mountain bike crapcycle for long rides - these are always pleasure / exercise so reliability is less important.

Although I'm happy with the effectiveness of my v-brakes, I've been looking into converting the rear wheel to disc brake (front conversion doesn't seem a sensible idea, so far) to prevent rim wear. Good quality 20" rims wide enough for 1.75" Marathon Plus tyres are difficult to source, otherwise I really wouldn't be investigating the possibility of considering disc brake conversion, because when wheels are true and pads are well adjusted and not too worn, for me at least v-brakes work well.

 

[Waspy]

.....when wheels are true and pads are well adjusted and not too worn, for me at least v-brakes work well.

Yes that is true but putting aside rim wear and less braking performance for a moment, by your own account for the best performance from V brakes, the wheel must be true, the pads have to be kept in adjustment and the pads cannot be worn. None of this applies to hydraulic disk brakes (but obviously the pads have to be replaced when they're worn out).

I have just been out on my bike after fitting a rear Shimano MT200 hydraulic disk brake. I fitted a front one last summer and since then I've been very unimpressed with my rear mechanical disk brake.

I am a total convert to hydraulics now (thanks to bloody saneagle) and I can't ever see me going back to V brakes or mechanical disks.

One tiny problem though, my hydraulic hose is about 200mm too long, so I'm going to have to get on Youtube and learn how to shorten it. Onwards and upwards.

 

[guerney]

Yes that is true but putting aside rim wear and less braking performance for a moment, by your own account for the best performance from V brakes, the wheel must be true, the pads have to be kept in adjustment and the pads cannot be worn. None of this applies to hydraulic disk brakes (but obviously the pads have to be replaced when they're worn out).

I have just been out on my bike after fitting a rear Shimano MT200 hydraulic disk brake. I fitted a front one last summer and since then I've been very unimpressed with my rear mechanical disk brake.

I am a total convert to hydraulics now (thanks to bloody saneagle) and I can't ever see me going back to V brakes or mechanical disks.

One tiny problem though, my hydraulic hose is about 200mm too long, so I'm going to have to get on Youtube and learn how to shorten it. Onwards and upwards.

If disc brakes are so good compared to v-brakes, I can well understand v-brakes being a dealbreaker. After resuming cycling in 2019, having given it up in the late 1980s, I haven't ridden a bicycle with disc brakes - I found a bike with a front cable disc brake dumped in the woods a few months ago, the thing wasn't rideable but the front disc did seem to stop the bike pretty effectively when I tried it while pushing it along home. If I do decide to go ahead attempting a rear disc brake conversion, if this front brake fits onto the rear disc brake adapter, and it works ok, I'll upgrade to hydraulic. It'll be a pain, because of course I'd have to replace the rear hub with one for disc brake first, and build a rear wheel. A front disc brake conversion doesn't currently seem viable.

 

[Bogmonster666]

If nothing else, I get through a small fortune in brake pads and need to adjust for wear every few outings. My hill is steep, single track, covered in loose gravel, high hedges and sharp bends. It’s the sort of hill you descend at 10mph in case you meet an idiot in a car coming up that refuses to stop. And I’ve met a few

 

[Peter.Bridge]

I have just been out on my bike after fitting a rear Shimano MT200 hydraulic disk brake. I fitted a front one last summer and since then I've been very unimpressed with my rear mechanical disk brake.

I am a total convert to hydraulics now (thanks to bloody saneagle) and I can't ever see me going back to V brakes or mechanical disks.

Exactly the same - I fitted the MT200 at the front - no maintenance - just as good as the day I got it, I'm getting unimpressed with my rear mechanical disc brake, which I swear has got worse over 2000 miles use and I have a MT200 ready to fit (total convert to hydraulic brakes - bloody @saneagle is to blame too ! )

 

[saneagle]

If disc brakes are so good compared to v-brakes, I can well understand v-brakes being a dealbreaker. After resuming cycling in 2019, having given it up in the late 1980s, I haven't ridden a bicycle with disc brakes - I found a bike with a front cable disc brake dumped in the woods a few months ago, the thing wasn't rideable but the front disc did seem to stop the bike pretty effectively when I tried it while pushing it along home. If I do decide to go ahead attempting a rear disc brake conversion, if this front brake fits onto the rear disc brake adapter, and it works ok, I'll upgrade to hydraulic. It'll be a pain, because of course I'd have to replace the rear hub with one for disc brake first, and build a rear wheel. A front disc brake conversion doesn't currently seem viable.


View attachment 58239

Don't waste your time with cable disc brakes. Anybody that has them should immediately swap them for hydraulics. The whole concept of the way cable disc brakes work is flawed and can be dangerous if not given ridiculous amounts of maintenance.

 

[mr_ed]

Don't waste your time with cable disc brakes. Anybody that has them should immediately swap them for hydraulics. The whole concept of the way cable disc brakes work is flawed and can be dangerous if not given ridiculous amounts of maintenance.

What a load of shite… instead of just stating your opinion as fact as usual, can you back this up with some reasoning and evidence?

There are millions of bikes with cable disk brakes and all the major brake manufacturers make them. Are you saying they’re negligent and the riders are going to suffer death unless they spend an hour a week maintaining their brakes?

…or actually are they just fine, and no better/worse than any other brakes.

Here is a balanced view, presented with reasoning and explanation rather than just stated as fact….

https://www.bikeradar.com/advice/buyers-guides/mechanical-disc-brakes

 

[Waspy]

What a load of shite… instead of just stating your opinion as fact as usual, can you back this up with some reasoning and evidence?

There are millions of bikes with cable disk brakes and all the major brake manufacturers make them. Are you saying they’re negligent and the riders are going to suffer death unless they spend an hour a week maintaining their brakes?

…or actually are they just fine, and no better/worse than any other brakes.

Here is a balanced view, presented with reasoning and explanation rather than just stated as fact….

https://www.bikeradar.com/advice/buyers-guides/mechanical-disc-brakes

Nowhere in that article does it mention E-bikes, which weigh more and have higher average speeds. Consider that mass going fast downhill.

Let me ask you a question, how would you fancy cable operated brakes on your car or motorbike?

Anyway, enjoy getting torn a new one by saneagle

 

[Peter.Bridge]

https://www.bikeradar.com/advice/buyers-guides/mechanical-disc-brakes

I bought a pair of cheapo Shimano MT200s off AliExpress for £35 including delivery (they even swapped them round to Right Front. Left Rear before they sent them for me)

My Facebook marketplace £50 15 year old Carrera Vulcan donor bike (that didn't look if it had been used) had cable disk brakes. I swapped the front brake to the hydraulic one about a year ago but left the mechanical rear brake (at that point I could lock the rear wheel riding on the flat using the mechanical disk brake). Over 1 year and 2000 miles the front hydraulic brake is still really effective but the rear mechanical disk has become far less effective (neither of which I've done any maintenance to). I will swap that one over too now.

I've seen people on here have bled hydraulic brakes, (does it vary by brake brand/model ? Saw this https://bicycles.stackexchange.com/a/6463 ) but I've not had to either on my Carrera or my 10 year old Boardman mtb(I think I use the brakes more on the MTB). They are still really effective, could lock the wheel if I pull hard enough.

For £35 I think it is a no brainer to swap over.