First hand experiences of ebikes in subzero temperatures?

[Uwotm8]

Not sure if this is in the right section but feel free to move it.
I'm moving to Finland in the new year and am looking into getting an ebike for my commute. Now as I'm sure you're all aware their winters are brutal, how would an ebike hold up to regular use at say -10 to -20C?
Does anyone have any first hand experience and some advice? I've read about the battery not being anywhere near its optimal working temperature and how that would effect it, but would it pack up completely?
Obviously I'd take all the necessary precautions like taking the battery indoors with me and not leaving it outside and wrapping it in something warm when out etc...
Kiitos!

 

[anotherkiwi]

Pedelecs member Sherman lives in Finland

 

[Uwotm8]

@Sherman... Oh that actually worked!

 

[Deleted member 4366]

It should be fine in those temperatures as long as you don't leave it outside when you're not using it. The battery will warm itself up once you get going.

I've used my bike in temperatures down to minus 12 deg C.

 

[VictoryV]

Not sure if this is in the right section but feel free to move it.
I'm moving to Finland in the new year and am looking into getting an ebike for my commute. Now as I'm sure you're all aware their winters are brutal, how would an ebike hold up to regular use at say -10 to -20C?
Does anyone have any first hand experience and some advice? I've read about the battery not being anywhere near its optimal working temperature and how that would effect it, but would it pack up completely?
Obviously I'd take all the necessary precautions like taking the battery indoors with me and not leaving it outside and wrapping it in something warm when out etc...
Kiitos!

Be careful if you grease anything such as brake cables or pivots. At low temperatures the grease can become very viscous and almost set hard, so the first time you apply the brakes they will be difficult to apply, or even more likely difficult to release. The RAF had to apply a special grease, in the 1950's, to the V Bomber's flying control linkages because they flew so high in the cold that normal grease effectively froze. We had to find the same stuff for our Jaguar aircraft which normally flew at very low level when we set them up for a high level (40,000 ft +) transit across the Atlantic via Greenland for the "Red Flag" competitions in Nevada.

 

[Artstu]

I know that battery range suffers in cold conditions, which I'm sure you're already aware of, by how much I don't know.

 

[Uwotm8]

Be careful if you grease anything such as brake cables or pivots. At low temperatures the grease can become very viscous and almost set hard, so the first time you apply the brakes they will be difficult to apply, or even more likely difficult to release. The RAF had to apply a special grease, in the 1950's, to the V Bomber's flying control linkages because they flew so high in the cold that normal grease effectively froze. We had to find the same stuff for our Jaguar aircraft which normally flew at very low level when we set them up for a high level (40,000 ft +) transit across the Atlantic via Greenland for the "Red Flag" competitions in Nevada.

Cheers. I know loads of people still ride their bikes in Finland throughout the winter so I'll pick up some tips along the way regarding general bike maintenance I'm sure. I'm mostly concerned about the battery and motor though.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I know that battery range suffers in cold conditions, which I'm sure you're already aware of, by how much I don't know.

Not a lot if you charge it at normal temperature. The battery has it's own central heating, so it doesn't really matter how cold it is where you ride your bike.

A typical 11.6 Ah battery will have 40 cells in 10S4P configuration. A good cell has an internal resistance of about 100 miliohms. lets say you're running at about 10 amps. The current through each cell would be 2.5A, so heating per cell would be 2.5 x 2.5 x 0.1 = 0.65W. For the whole pack that would be 25W. At 5 amps, the heating would be 6.25W, and at the maximum 15A it would be 56W.

 

[anotherkiwi]

A neoprene cover on the battery will help fight wind chill, that is your worst enemy. It will keep all those Watts inside your battery which will be nice and cosy at -10° and below.

 

[VictoryV]

Cheers. I know loads of people still ride their bikes in Finland throughout the winter so I'll pick up some tips along the way regarding general bike maintenance I'm sure. I'm mostly concerned about the battery and motor though.

Don't forget about yourself as well as the bike. Link attached to windchill calculator, especially when going into a headwind!

http://www.srh.noaa.gov/epz/?n=wxcalc_windchill

 

[EddiePJ]

Be careful if you grease anything such as brake cables or pivots.

That kind of reminds of the countless winter night rides that I have had, where things start off fine, then almost before you know it what was wet sloppy mud, has suddenly become frozen solid to the frame and drive train components, so making gear selection impossible.

Role on winter!

 

[flecc]

Member jkirkebo lives in Fredrikstad, Norway and has reported no cold problems in his many posts. He first had a Giant which he fitted with an Ezee kit fitted, later changing to an Ezee Forza which he praised highly.

In April 2008 member slowfeet long ago sent us a dramatic photo of him with his Wisper 905se in deep snow in Kualoya (Whale Island) 70 degrees North in Norway. Unfortunately that page and photo are no longer accessible in "Search".

Pedelec members in Finland include Sherman, Marlon, Zombie, Magnuken and Tkarttu.

I don't recall any of them complaining about battery problems relative to the cold.
.

 

[Uwotm8]

Don't forget about yourself as well as the bike. Link attached to windchill calculator, especially when going into a headwind!

http://www.srh.noaa.gov/epz/?n=wxcalc_windchill

You've probably hit the nail on the head with your post, I'm the one who is likely to fail not the bike!

Member jkirkebo lives in Fredrikstad, Norway and has reported no cold problems in his many posts. He first had a Giant which he fitted with an Ezee kit fitted, later changing to an Ezee Forza which he praised highly.

In April 2008 member slowfeet long ago sent us a dramatic photo of him with his Wisper 905se in deep snow in Kualoya (Whale Island) 70 degrees North in Norway. Unfortunately that page and photo are no longer accessible in "Search".

Pedelec members in Finland include Sherman, Marlon, Zombie, Magnuken and Tkarttu.

I don't recall any of them complaining about battery problems relative to the cold.
.

Cheers, just what I wanted to hear.

 

[Sherman]

I've ridden down to -20C. Most problems are normal bicycle problems in cold (brakes stiffen, keep cables clean of oil etc). Bosch engine on my KTM has worked perfectly well. The range dropped about 30% somewhere between -5 - -20C. I keep my bike dry and warm when not in use.

Also, tough and puncture resistant tires. The grit on the roads really tear through the tires.

When the winter is as its finest it's absolute joy to ride:


At its worst it's cold, dark, wet and miserable. Mutta senhän sä tiedätkin :-D

 

[Uwotm8]

I've ridden down to -20C. Most problems are normal bicycle problems in cold (brakes stiffen, keep cables clean of oil etc). Bosch engine on my KTM has worked perfectly well. The range dropped about 30% somewhere between -5 - -20C. I keep my bike dry and warm when not in use.

Also, tough and puncture resistant tires. The grit on the roads really tear through the tires.

When the winter is as its finest it's absolute joy to ride:
View attachment 15377

At its worst it's cold, dark, wet and miserable. Mutta senhän sä tiedätkin :-D

Thanks man, that's really good to hear. Where abouts in Finland are you? I'll be moving to the Helsinki area, do you know of any good bike shops to check out?
I've experienced all the joys of Finnish weather, I'm actually looking forward to it, although I haven't mastered how to walk on ice yet - hopefully riding a bike on it is easier!

 

[soundwave]

if you want ill put a 18650 cell in the freezer over night fully charged to 4.2v and test it again tomorrow and see what its at

 

[Uwotm8]

if you want ill put a 18650 cell in the freezer over night fully charged to 4.2v and test it again tomorrow and see what its at

Well, I don't want you to possibly harm your battery... but I'll be honest and say I'd be very intrigued to see the result.

 

[soundwave]

its 1 cell from a fake 18650 light pack from china i dont hold out much hope for it tbh.

 

[Sherman]

Thanks man, that's really good to hear. Where abouts in Finland are you? I'll be moving to the Helsinki area, do you know of any good bike shops to check out

I live in Helsinki. Drop me a PM if you want to go riding sometimes, especially in the winter

My favourite bike shop is Hi5bikes in Herttoniemi. Huge selection and very good prices. Few ebikes too (mtb). It's a bit far from my place though. Another favourite is Ridemore in Konala. It's pure mtb shop with few ebikes. In Konala there's also Electrobike. Ebikes only with good number of bikes, service is just not that good compared to the other two mentioned. But worth a visit.

I've experienced all the joys of Finnish weather, I'm actually looking forward to it, although I haven't mastered how to walk on ice yet - hopefully riding a bike on it is easier!

Get good studded tires, like Schwalbe Ice spiker pro or Nokian Extreme. It's good fun.

 

[LeighPing]

Great informative post Sherman. I love your improvised bikestand.