eZee Torq owners: What range are you getting from your battery?

[robert letts]

could I fit a smaller chainwheel at the pedal end or a pair like a normal mountain bike?

 

[flecc]

Yes, a smaller chainring can be fitted to the existing chainwheel centre, a 48 in place of the 52 tooth, but that would only help your own pedalling uphill, the motor would still suffer the same drop in power below 12 mph. If you gear your effort lower to climb more easily and slower, the motor power will drop even further, leaving you with yet more to do. The best technique with the Torq is to put in enough pedal effort to keep it at 12 mph or more, and the present gearing is ok for that. If a hill is to steep for you to do that, that's the bike's limits, which eZee advise is a 1 in 10 hill. A not too long 1 in 8 can be viable with loads of effort, but not that easy.

Twin chainwheels won't work with the Torq, since it's present chainwheel is already only lined up with the rear sprockets in top gear. Extra rings outboard would distort the chain path even more, and they can't be further in because of the battery.

 

[Flying Kiwi]

Maybe I should sell it and recover some of the loss. I tried a giant lafree which is better at hills undoubtedly, but the gears were a bit troublesome to engage correctly (perhaps an adjustment thing) but overall it felt like a town bike to ride compared with the basic mountain bike set up of the ezee.

Having never ridden an eZee I can't compare one with my Twist Comfort but certainly the 5 speed click shifter on my bike is very positive as long as its correctly adjusted (I check this every few months) and that gear changes are attempted only when no pedal power is applied (ie can keep the pedals going around but just dont load them up until after changing gear). If you want to use the bike on very steep hills then the 5 speed Twist Comfort offers better flexibility in terms of gear range over the 3 speed Twist Lite.

 

[coops]

Hi all

Riding derestricted with original 52T chainring I was getting about 14 or so miles full throttle with easy pedalling.

After fitting a 40T chainring (rear mech & cassette unchanged, gear range now 44.8"-93.33" which works well for me: a low gear pedalling from standstill and good higher gear spacing - well matched to both the range of maximum motor/downhill assisted speeds I get, and my higher pedalling speed on the Torq) I got 16 miles - again full throttle etc. & same terrain, but in possibly slightly more ideal, calmer conditions.

Just tried same route again, but this time limiting cruising speed to around 15-17mph with throttle control, to see if it would give similar range to running restricted, and with occasional mild headwind got 23.2 miles in 90 minutes.

Both the last two results were in one go, non-stop, and I have NiMH battery.

I never ran a full charge while restricted, but expect I'd get around 25 miles or so, maybe a little more, and that's with mostly a top motor only speed of 14.4mph.

So I'm now satisfied that running derestricted at speeds a little beyond 15mph with economical throttle use can get me close to the restricted range, in calm weather at least , with headwinds & gradients just limiting the power & speed a little can still give an ok range I think .

Stuart.

 

[coops]

Torq range when used as a performance/exercise bike

For anyone interested to get an idea of range for this sort of usage:

Inspired by the T-bike, watching the Tour de France, rediscovering somewhat my "cycle legs" and the idea that more vigorously pedalling the Torq at delimited speeds ~18-20mph+ on the flat, or a few mph less on hills, should give a good range from the battery aswell as good exercise, I gave it a go.

I'm aware some will say it defeats the object of an ebike to pedal it with much effort, but I need the exercise & like the delimited speed so here's my "performance test" & results:

The terrain fell roughly in 4 parts: 16 miles undulating (around 10-15m up & down) , 6 miles gradual ascent of 60m, 3 miles of quite steep ascent of 100m including a 10% slope ; the remainder mostly quite even or downhill (return journey) except for the odd bridge etc.

Keeping an average "moving" speed of around 16-18mph on the gradual climbs, pushing full throttle & 20mph+ at times on the flatter parts, and only pedalling without motor power from time to time for a few miles at most, the battery (NiMH) lasted for 35 miles! Average overall speed around 17mph (not including a couple of breaks ).

For a comparison, previously in flatter terrain I'd get about 25-30miles but at a rather lower average speed, say ~15mph or less, and with less pedalling effort.

As I said, I'm sure that usage won't suit everyone, but thought I'd post the result for anyone may be interested in using an ebike to extend the range of exercise & fun using a performance ebike and to show that pedalling harder in sympathy with more throttle use can give a similar range to gentle pedalling & economic throttling.

I should add that I chose the route quite carefully to avoid too much traffic & lights, which probably helped the overall range & average speed.

Stuart.

 

[flecc]

Good results Stuart, and helped by the lack of really steep hills, all up to 10% being within the bike's best climb range.

In contrast to your 35 miles, I'd just completed a couple of trips on the T bike with 39.6 volt NiMh radical battery during yesterday and today working it mercilessly to the limit, and of course with some steep hills up to 16% and plenty of stops due to traffic lights, road works etc, all followed by full throttle from standstill. Virtually all times at full throttle on the stop and much of the flat areas running between 22 and 25 mph, climbs all on the motor limit with only moderate assistance from me.

At the end the battery was at 1.08 volts per cell, good for a couple more miles but almost needing recharge, the distance completed just 12 miles, just about halved from the normal usage range in the same areas. Fun though, and no bother for me as I mainly have shorter range trips.
.

 

[nigel]

Nigel

Hi coops
the most i done in 1 day was 30 miles one way mainly using power on those long never ending hills it was quite easy for me but my son was on a normal bike i am not sure how much juice i had left in the battery but it was still new then so i suspect quite a lot left however my son had had enough for one day and so we got the train back which i didnt really mind as i had a bit of saddle soreness i am mainly a plesure cyclist and will leave the long journeys to the experts NIGEL

 

[coops]

Yes flecc, I omitted to mention that I also chose my route to avoid very steep hills (which I'm fortunate to be able to do), even that 10% only necessary to reach a destination and that of course helped achieve that range, especially on a Torq.

Still, what a contrast of results! Using only the motor on starts can sap battery energy very quickly, even if one doesn't have steep hills to climb...

I should also add that, although I was trying out what for me is a new way of riding the Torq, it was primarily for fun, plus exercise & practicality: I was not only able to rapidly escape the city confines, but I could also "exercise" while exploring quite widely, for quite some time, and yet the motor was still doing at least 75% of the work!

The best bit was hitting 36mph downhill on a steep section, my top speed so far, almost without realising - it felt very stable indeed! Good job i remembered in time that I only had one V-brake! (rear roller brake upgrade to V-brake in the offing i think!).

 

[coops]

Hi Nigel

That's what I enjoy most about ebiking: it's so much fun aswell as exercise (fun for you, exercise for your son! ).

30 miles in a hilly area is a good result indeed, especially if you still had juice left, & even better for your son! .

I forgot to say that although I got 35 miles with battery power, unfortunately an earlier wrong turn had taken me on an unplanned 4miles "detour", and I was still 10 miles from home when the power cut! Luckily it was mostly flat or downhill, just a few bridges .

That 45miles is my longest excursion so far, usually around 30miles or so up till now. Roll on 2nd battery, or improved fitness, or both .

Stuart.

 

[Ian]

Roll on 2nd battery, or improved fitness, or both .

Stuart.

My second battery is tending to make me lazy, the certain knowledge that I have enough juice to get home puts me off putting in the extra effort that I used to. It's not helped by months of bad weather limiting rides and consequently my fitness level isn't there when I need it.

 

[flecc]

my fitness level isn't there when I need it.

Is any of ours with this summer's weather Ian? Despite being lucky enough to be able to take advantage of each dry bit as it occurs, my mileage is way down on what it usually is, and fitness short of where it usually is at this time of the year. Maybe we'll get a warm dry winter!
.

 

[Ian]

I hope so Flecc, I've gambled my remaining holidays on a week in the Autumn.

PS. Solar panels going cheap.

 

[flecc]

PS. Solar panels going cheap.

Good point! There's a lot of businesses staked a lot in those as a venture this year and must be feeling very worried right now.

They should have gone into bottling water.
.

 

[coops]

I wonder if there'll be a run on materials for hydroelectric production...?

My second battery is tending to make me lazy

Thats very useful to know, Ian, thanks . Its easy to see how that could happen: I'm trying to allow a period of adjustment at every step, before making any setup changes, and change in "legpower" is no different I suppose. I don't think I'll get much more range than 35miles though without greater energy reserves, unless its mostly level...

It seems I still have time to decide on a 2nd battery though, with the persistent low NiMH availability: just needs some good cycling weather to see where my legs are at... .

By the way, "fitness" is probably a misnomer for what I'm referring to! "Lack of rustiness" is nearer the mark .

Stuart.

 

[Ian]

By the way, "fitness" is probably a misnomer for what I'm referring to! "Lack of rustiness" is nearer the mark .

Stuart.

That is certainly true in my case Stuart but your recent stage of the Tour de Manchester was certainly an achievement, that range at those speeds does suggest a certain level of fitness.

As for the second battery, I've only needed it on three occasions, all while on holiday in Cornwall, and only then for the last 4 or 5 miles. I can't help wondering if I would have been OK with just the one as lugging an extra 5.5kg around obviously requires extra effort. However when "home" is at the top of a 450 ft hill knowing it's there is a comfort. (As was being on top of a hill at that time ).

 

[coops]

I've been fortunate that my cycle legs must still have a sort of "residual memory" of all the (recreational) cycling I did when younger, including some Tours de Shropshire hills : I'm still useless at running, even walking at times, but I don't care when I can ebike on a Torq!

Also, the energy required for those speeds is deceptive I think: as I said, the battery & motor was still by far taking most of the strain. Having read here, and found myself, that 15-20miles was good going for delimited use at speed with easy pedalling, I just wondered how much more delimited range could be had for more active legpower: I'd estimate I pedalled with no more power than I would at 15mph or less on my MTB (compared to say an easier 10mph "rate" I'd used previously), and it was actually much easier than that would be, since with motor assist one can pedal at a very efficient cadence rather than the lower cadence "pushing" which can occur on say a MTB at speeds near its efficiency limit for normal pedalling.

I suspect that by matching how much pedalpower one puts in to the throttle power level, one can consistently get similar ranges per charge for different speeds/usages of the Torq e.g. 13mph with very easy pedalling, 15-16mph with easy pedalling, 17-18mph moderate pedalling & 20mph+ with active pedalling, can all give around 30miles or more range with NiMH in not too hilly areas: as long as the steepest hills still allow efficient motor use, that is, and one can take advantage of downhill freewheeling to reduce average power use.

Taken from another thread...

My next re-celling project will probably be a lightweight "get you home" battery with C size cells of about 5Ah, if I can find them at the right price. It seems pointless lugging a spare 5.5kg battery around when it only gets used for the last couple of miles.

I think a 2nd battery may be unnecessary weight & capacity for me too, for most of the time, so I'm also very interested in a smaller, lighter "get you home" battery too: any more ideas on that Ian? Much depends on the price & availability of smaller NiMH cells, "C" size 5Ah or so as you proposed, I suppose, or AA if one wants a budget battery like flecc's project, aswell as the difficulty level of a DIY job for me! I've been wondering whether there's any "mileage" in using one or two small 36V 2Ah lithium power tool batteries, Bosch for instance, under 1kg each? Probably still more pricey than NiMH, and more than one required for over 5-6 miles or so, aswell as probably a different
charger...

Stuart.

 

[flecc]

Trouble with C cells is that their not price efficient, The high capacity 5 Ah ones cost more than half that of 10 Ah D cells, making them a bit pointless, especially when a smaller capacity battery will always give reduced performance in a high drain application. 30 x C cells of 5 Ah will cost about as much as a new eZee NiMh battery, and possibly more, for half the capacity.

The only gains with C are size and weight.
.