EVE ICR 18650 cells in Swytch GO+

[eas2lv]

I had never heard of EVE before seeing Swytch's new "GO+" battery that uses EVE ICR 18650/26V cells (as per the label on the box). Should I be concerned that it may be using LCO chemistry which is not ideal for high drain applications? The MSDS here it seems to show its probably NMC though -- may be EVE kept the naming (ICR) but switched the chemistry? Does anyone know whether EVE is a reliable manufacturer? Strange thing is that Swytch customer service had previously assured me that they use Samsung cells in the "GO" line.

The cells are listed to have a max drain current of 3C and the battery is 10s3p with 7.5Ah capacity. Assuming half of the quoted drain is okay in practice, a max current of ~11A looks usable. Not sure what their controller specs are.

 

[cyclebuddy]

Does anyone know whether EVE is a reliable manufacturer?

From my own usage, I would say they are. EVE LiFePO4 cells are used in a number of power stations, including my own Aferiy 1200Wh and 2400Wh... and I've been slogging all 3 of them to death, so far 100% reliably... and Aferiy offer a 7 year warranty to 80% capacity too, so they must have confidence in EVE as a brand. Okay, the LiFePO4 cells I'm using aren't 18650 (they're larger), but what's not to like?

There're lots of credible Far Eastern cell makers now who aren't the usual suspects of Samsung, Sony, LG, Panasonic et al. I'd be surprised if Swytch haven't done their homework given the potential for mass venting on social media if they prove anything but reliable.

 

[saneagle]

I had never heard of EVE before seeing Swytch's new "GO+" battery that uses EVE ICR 18650/26V cells (as per the label on the box). Should I be concerned that it may be using LCO chemistry which is not ideal for high drain applications? The MSDS here it seems to show its probably NMC though -- may be EVE kept the naming (ICR) but switched the chemistry? Does anyone know whether EVE is a reliable manufacturer? Strange thing is that Swytch customer service had previously assured me that they use Samsung cells in the "GO" line.

The cells are listed to have a max drain current of 3C and the battery is 10s3p with 7.5Ah capacity. Assuming half of the quoted drain is okay in practice, a max current of ~11A looks usable. Not sure what their controller specs are.

EVE are one of the well known Chinese battery cell makers. Unfortunately, they may go bust soon due to the downturn in the battery market.

I find that cells work OK up to about half their maximum drain. The maximum discharge rate for the ICR 18650 35V is 10.2A, so 5.1A for a single one or 15.3A for a 3P battery. If Swytch use the 26V cells, then 11A or 12A would be about right, as you say. IIRC, their controller is 12A.

 

[eas2lv]

EVE are one of the well known Chinese battery cell makers. Unfortunately, they may go bust soon due to the downturn in the battery market.

I find that cells work OK up to about half their maximum drain.

Thanks. That's reassuring. (not the "they may go bust" part

 

[cyclebuddy]

Unfortunately, they may go bust soon due to the downturn in the battery market.

That may be news to BMW, Daimler and Kia/Hyundai who use EVE cells for their EV's!

 

[saneagle]

That may be news to BMW, Daimler and Kia/Hyundai who use EVE cells for their EV's!

It's because of them that EVE is in trouble.

 

[cyclebuddy]

It's because of them that EVE is in trouble.

That's indicative of the Lithium industry across the world, not just EVE and not just in China... dare we mention the fiasco that was Britishvolt (and others in the US and across Europe that already have gone bust)? They're all in trouble because of low demand.

Here's the performance of one of the UK's major specialists in energy storage, large scale Lithium power banks that store energy generated by UK solar and wind. Having lost 44% in value in just three years, how long has this got before going bust? It's a pretty typical example...



And this is the kind of National Infrastructure that Rachel Reeves wants to plough our combined Pension "Mega-Funds" into?

 

[saneagle]

That's indicative of the Lithium industry across the world, not just EVE and not just in China... dare we mention the fiasco that was Britishvolt (and others in the US and across Europe that already have gone bust)? They're all in trouble because of low demand.

Here's the performance of one of the UK's major specialists in energy storage, large scale Lithium power banks that store energy generated by UK solar and wind. Having lost 44% in value in just three years, how long has this got before going bust? It's a pretty typical example...

View attachment 60865

And this is the kind of National Infrastructure that Rachel Reeves wants to plough our combined Pension "Mega-Funds" into?

I didn't say it was just EVE in trouble. This thread is about EVE cells.

 

[cyclebuddy]

I didn't say it was just EVE in trouble. This thread is about EVE cells.

Exactly. You brought the viability of EVE as a brand into question.

In June BMW cancelled a very significant cell order from Northvolt, one of Europes largest lithium cell producers based in Sweden, and just in the last few days it's being reported that Northvolt have ceased production and in the absence of Government support and huge debts, likely filing for bankruptcy.

On the other hand, about BMW's Gen6 battery system for 2025 models...
"The most radical change will be a switch to cylindrical cells. Up until now, BMW had been using rectangular prismatic batteries in its packs. The cells themselves will continue to use NMC chemistry and will be manufactured by existing partners CATL and EVE".

That's potential bankruptcy for Swedish Northvolt and a win for Chinese EVE. I don't see how your statement holds water...

It's because of them [BMW/Kia et al] that EVE is in trouble.

 

[saneagle]

Exactly. You brought the viability of EVE as a brand into question.

In June BMW cancelled a very significant cell order from Northvolt, one of Europes largest lithium cell producers based in Sweden, and just in the last few days it's being reported that Northvolt have ceased production and in the absence of Government support and huge debts, likely filing for bankruptcy.

On the other hand, about BMW's Gen6 battery system for 2025 models...
"The most radical change will be a switch to cylindrical cells. Up until now, BMW had been using rectangular prismatic batteries in its packs. The cells themselves will continue to use NMC chemistry and will be manufactured by existing partners CATL and EVE".

That's potential bankruptcy for Swedish Northvolt and a win for Chinese EVE. I don't see how your statement holds water...

All I know is that they mentioned in that video that EVE was in some sort of bother.

 

[eas2lv]

Actually the video does mention that EVE is "on the brink of bankruptcy".

 

[cyclebuddy]

Actually the video does mention that EVE is "on the brink of bankruptcy".

Yes, but the point is they are all in financial difficulties due to a lack of demand... EVE is typical, not the exception.

As that video also confirms, the difference is that many Chinese cell makers have Government support behind them since Chinese overcapacity is largely of their Governments own making: UK Britishvolt and Swedish Northvolt didn't/don't.

BMW suggest that 40% of the cost of an EV is down to the battery. The new cells from EVE are half the price, offer 20%+ quicker charging, about 20% lighter, and 30% more range*. If anything, it's companies like BMW helping to prop EVE up.

Those increases in performance and lower costs bode well for e-bike batteries I think, and maybe why Swytch are also changing to EVE?

* Roughly, from memory. I can say my EVE cylindrical-celled Aferiy power-stations all weigh less than equivalent capacity products from many competitors.

 

[eas2lv]

> Those increases in performance and lower costs bode well for e-bike batteries I think, and maybe why Swytch are also changing to EVE?

I think Swytch is just saving money -- EVE 26V cells were listed for only $1.55 on 18650batterystore.com (out of stock now) and that's the retail price.