EU trying to impose insurance for E-Bikes

[whiteturbo]

1st if this is reported elsewhere in Pedelecs i apologize for double posting, i did look and couldn't find any other reports of this.

So the EU, in their wisdom, are going to class any vehicle with any sized motor(including 250w and under) as a motor vehicle and therefore requiring motor insurance and just as with cars, if you are not insured you can be prosecuted, fined, have points taken off your driving license and even be sent to prison. This is of course being promoted by the motor insurance industries as they cant abide the fact that millions(in EU) of Ebikers are out of their reach. £550 pounds a year is the figure mentioned.
The cycling lobby in the EU are attempting to reverse this decision which i believe has already been passed but has to be implemented on a country by country level. I don't know how the UK stands on this because of Brexit BUT you can bet your bottom dollar(£) that the Tories(and i bet Labour would agree) would follow suit in the name of helping the insurance industry. But i think that if we are not very careful the ebike industry would die a very quick death just as its starting to gain momentum.

 

[Wicky]

Have you a link to where you picked up on this supposed 'decision' being made?

I believe there's a thread here on this subject from a couple or three months ago if you look, when the news item was discussed and dissected.

 

[whiteturbo]

Hi Wicky, address as requested:-

https://www.bike-eu.com/home/nieuws/2018/05/perplexing-decision-european-commission-e-bikes-must-insured-10133795

could you point me to the discussion you mentioned, i did look for it as i thought it was pretty important to us as ebikers. And knowing the way goverments think it seemed like the sort of trick they would use to draw us back into the fold.

 

[chris_n]

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/e-bikes-declared-illegal-to-use-on-european-roads-without-insurance.31427/

 

[Wicky]

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/e-bikes-declared-illegal-to-use-on-european-roads-without-insurance.31427/

edit, Chris beat me to it

 

[Chris.]

But does that mean they will lift speed restriction and give us the same privlidge as any other veacle because if not they will destroy the ebike indusry. people will switch to motor veacles and ride normal bikes. That seems very unfair to people who spent thousands of pounds to avoid the extra cost of insurance and got an ebike to save money

 

[Wicky]

Anything's possible in the future - but in the short / medium term the proposal is just that - a proposal . Only if it gets accepted by TPTB that our pedelec world gets turned upside down.

 

[Danidl]

But does that mean they will lift speed restriction and give us the same privlidge as any other veacle because if not they will destroy the ebike indusry. people will switch to motor veacles and ride normal bikes. That seems very unfair to people who spent thousands of pounds to avoid the extra cost of insurance and got an ebike to save money

Let us not be too hasty. The EU commission accepts petitions and proposes actions. The proposal then goes to the EU who discuss and eventually come to a decision. The decision, can be in any number of levels, .suggestions, recommendation or directives. A directive, will in time become law in all the member states. .. But always requires legislation by the member state. The situation about any ebike in NI is a case in point.
Does the phrase Kite Flying mean anything?.
Now there have been some bizzare rulings and suggestions..often coming off the back of some tragic death. There was one aired on this forum that all powered vehicles, whether on public or private land be insured. .. if memory serves, it was because a powered mower kocked over a ladder with a painter working at high level.
But an observation, the use of illegal dongles and reckless use of higher powered non type approved ebikes, plays into this paranoia.

 

[whiteturbo]

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/e-bikes-declared-illegal-to-use-on-european-roads-without-insurance.31427/

edit, Chris beat me to it

Thanks Wicky And Chris, I wouldn't have started this thread if i had been aware of the thread you've indicated, infact i said as much in the beginning of it. Is there a way i can search previous threads so as to avoid double posting as i have double posted before much to my embarrassment on being picked up on it.

 

[Wicky]

A handy tricky for searching sites along with the site's own built in search function is to use this when using google:

site:pedelecs.co.uk https://www.bikebiz.com/landscape/bikes-need-3rd-part-insurance-in-eu

That's how I reverse searched for the original thread where the same link you had was posted.

Also handy for searching for short word terms of only two or three letters / acronyms on most websites that might be too short for the site's own indexing i.e. EU etc.

 

[oyster]

£550 pounds a year is the figure mentioned.

Are you saying £550 for a one year third party policy? When my reasonably decent, reasonably brisk car is "only" £338, fully comp?

Ah! - I see - a comment says 550 euros quoted. Still incredibly high.

 

[Nefarious]

First thing I've heard that would actually be a positive result of Brexit!

 

[anotherkiwi]

First thing I've heard that would actually be a positive result of Brexit!

What do you mean?

If a country did pass this into law (it would be contrary to EN 15194 which says a pedelec isn't a motor vehicle):

- UK residents wouldn't be able to bring their e-bikes on holiday to the continent without insuring them and that holiday insurance would be at a premium price of that you can be sure
- if a UK resident decides to rent a bike on holiday they would be (in fact they are already today) paying an insurance premium anyway

Great result!

 

[Nefarious]

What do you mean?

If a country did pass this into law (it would be contrary to EN 15194 which says a pedelec isn't a motor vehicle):

- UK residents wouldn't be able to bring their e-bikes on holiday to the continent without insuring them and that holiday insurance would be at a premium price of that you can be sure
- if a UK resident decides to rent a bike on holiday they would be (in fact they are already today) paying an insurance premium anyway

Great result!

Apologies if I am being too parochial for you! If this WERE to become an EU law, passed after the UK leave, then it wouldn't apply to us. And with all the backlog of other Brexit-related legislation, it is fairly reasonable to assume that it wouldn't be adopted in the UK any time soon, either. All that is a big plus for me. Concerns re taking my bike abroad or renting another abroad are pretty small in comparison...

 

[anotherkiwi]

If it were to become an EU directive. Countries make laws not the EU.

 

[oyster]

Have to ask how cover can be determined for a bicycle when there is no need to have any unique identifying mark on it?

(I know factory-built bikes do have identifiers but there is nothing that compels me to retain that.)

I'd have thought that the now-rare motor cycle rider policy would be a more appropriate approach.

I can also see an argument for mandating motor vehicle policies to cover use of bikes as a built-in extra. Doesn't help anyone who doesn't have their own motor insurance, of cource.

 

[Nefarious]

If it were to become an EU directive. Countries make laws not the EU.

Whatever. Doesn't change my argument one iota

 

[whiteturbo]

@oyster apologies, its euro's of course and i think its assuming you don't have any no claims bonus and are a new client.

All this demonstrates the wisdom of the UK disentangling itself from the crazy bureaucracy of Brussels, but we wont get off scott free, thats a certainty, because i'm not sure the bureaucracy of Whitehall is any better. To quote someone famous(cant remember who, Lincoln, Jefferson, Mark Twain?) It doesn't matter who you vote for "The Government always gets in".

 

[oyster]

@oyster apologies, its euro's of course and i think its assuming you don't have any no claims bonus and are a new client.

All this demonstrates the wisdom of the UK disentangling itself from the crazy bureaucracy of Brussels, but we wont get off scott free, thats a certainty, because i'm not sure the bureaucracy of Whitehall is any better. To quote someone famous(cant remember who, Lincoln, Jefferson, Mark Twain?) It doesn't matter who you vote for "The Government always gets in".

No problem with the euros bit - it is still a staggering premium.

(I'll disagree with you about some things but there is already a thread going on about that!)

 

[Benjahmin]

If this were to be implemented it would kill pedelecs stone dead in this country.
However, I don't think it will be. I think the number of people who 'wouldn't bother' to get cover would be huge. Who's going to check and how?
There is probably a case for ALL road users to carry third party insurance but, again, how could this be administered? Perhaps every person on the electoral roll/census should be required, by law, to carry insurance because we all use the pavements, don't we? Perhaps I should get a consultant roll in the insurance industry, I'm sure they'd love that one.
Jeez, it's getting to the point that one will need insurance to take a crap in case one damages someones nose