Erratic Electric problem with my Bearprint.

[bazwaldo]

Hello everyone,
You may have seen my posts a while ago about obtaining new batteries for my Bearprint bike.
I sourced a new battery privately from a Chinese Alibaba seller and also had a replacement battery under warranty from Bearprint.
Since then I have covered nearly 800 more miles of commuting to work alternating from 1 battery to the other every fortnight or so.
In the last few days I have been getting an erratic electrical problem where the power seems to cut off then switch on all by itself.
The 4 battery strength lights drop down to 1 LED but may recover to 2, 3 or 4 lights, then changing the number of lights but often just leaving 1 light. The 3 position assist leds drop from highest to lowest position so I turn it back up to full assist.
Coming home from work last Sunday afternoon it did this and then dislayed 1 led all the way home.
I was worried it would run out of juice but it got me home on full power, sometimes it would by itself turn down to low power and I had to switch it up to full power again.

After work yesterday (I drove) I checked the controller connections and changed from the Chinese battery to the Bearprint FOC warranty replacement.
The lights still with a fully charged battery dropped to 1 or 2 leds.
I noticed that if I turn the lights on or off with the button on the handlebar switch unit this causes the battery strength leds to either go to 4 leds or drop down to 3 or visa versa.
As it happens with 2 different new batteries I do not think it is a battery issue.
Possibly it might be another Controller problem (I am on my 3rd controller under warranty) or a wiring issue.
I am not an electrician and have no real understanding of electrics but just have a feeeling that maybe a cable is shorting out somehow? Probably associated with the lights.
Does anyone have any ideas about the best way to trouble shoot this issue or what might be causing the problem?

Thanks for any help offered.
Barry.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

It sounds like something might be drawing a lot of current (shorting out). You'd need an ammeter to confirm that, or it might be just the LED's connection faulty. Check the actual voltage with a meter while it's down to one LED.

 

[bazwaldo]

Thanks for your reply d8veh.
I don't know how to use an electric meter unfortunately.
Yesterday I had another look at it on my day off and seem to have made it worse.
I thoroughly rechecked the connections to the Controller giving them a squirt of WD40 to drive out any moisture that may have got into the connection blocks.
I also checked the 4 connections in the triangular connection unit in front of the handlebars, several of the 4 block connectors there showed green corrosion so I gave these the WD40 treatment as well and made and remade the connections to try and ensure a good clean fit together.
After this no lights come on the handlebar battery leds at all and the light led does not come on either.
How cleaning and improving the connections can make it worse I do not know!
I swapped the fuse in the battery but this made no difference.
Strangely although there are no led lights coming on the throttle still drives the back wheel.
I am unable to make any sense of it, I am going to have to speak to Bearprint and take the bike back to them for fixing I think.
Barry.

 

[bazwaldo]

Well here is another update - not good news unfortunately.

I spoke to Bearprint again yesterday and things are not going well for them it seems.
One of the partners appears to have quit and the remaining partner is not very optimistic for the future of the company.
I was hoping to return my bike for fault diagnosis and repair but was advised that I knew as much as they did about the electrical problem afffecting the bike!?! So not much assistance was given.
They did offer to send out such parts as could be taken off another bike if I can find out what is causing the issue.
If I can find a local electrician to diagnose the electrical fault maybe I can get the bike working again.

Looking at the Freego website where the Hawk model appears to be almost identical to my ebike, they have an extensive parts section where it looks as though a complete bike can be built from all the available spares.
Sadly it looks as though Bearprint setup their operation without any consideration for spares or aftersales service.
All the parts sent to me under warranty have I think probably been taken from complete bikes.

Oh well it has been my first experience of ebiking and overall it has been enjoyable and not unsuccessful with nearly 7000 miles or work commuting done.
If I were to purchase another ebike I think I would probably follow Eddieo's advice and go upmarket and spend more money.
The commuter Haibike probably would top the wish list of possible replacements.
Given my experience there are must have criteria for a 2nd ebike:-

Crank drive - Bosch preferred
self contained hub gears ideally
disk brakes
quality suspension system
quality components throughout

The only concern is that when spending £2000+ on a quality brand if anything did go wrong, and with my relatively high mileage it is likely to, I would feel that much more annoyed and frustrated compared to a cheaper generic Chinese ebike where you half expect problems to happen!

It is difficult to find the “perfect” ebike and perhaps it would be best to await market developments in the next year or 2 to see if any clear market leader emerges with improved battery and motor technology at better value and more competitive price points.

Barry.

 

[flecc]

Sorry to hear of this Barry. Sadly the e-bike market regularly suffers from new companies rushing in ill-prepared and quickly failing, and of course it's difficult to tell which newcomers are safe.

The only guidance on this I can give from past experience is that new e-bike companies which are part of larger companies or groups seem to have good staying power. Conversely e-bikes sold by multiple retailers selling other goods tend to lack any satisfactory ongoing support, often none at all.

 

[JuicyBike]

Hi Barry
I remember you did call at our Buxton shop when first selecting a bike. If you are not too far please feel free to bring your bike to our workshop where I'm sure we can diagnose the problem and should be able to make the repairs needed.
With proper support there is no reason why the more reasonably priced electric bikes shouldn't cope with your demands - ours certainly do.

 

[bazwaldo]

Thanks for your comments flecc.

That's a very kind offer Bob much appreciated.
You are right I so very nearly purchased a Juicy Bike accept that at the time the larger capacity battery I was after had not arrived in stock.
I am based in mid-Somerset so it is not convenient or near to your location.
There has to be a bike shop or electrician locally who can help me diagnose what part of the electrics is causing the problem.
If necessary I will purchase similar parts from the Freego website as I am fairly certain that they are drop in replacements.
It could be a problem with the power switch on the handlebar or the wiring loom or perhaps even the controller again.
My main critism of the Bearprint having worked on it is that the controller is crammed into a small area under the battery behind the seatpost and dirt and moisture does seem able to find a way in through the hole in which the main wiring cable feeds together with the pedelec sensor cable.
Many of the smaller wires seem thin and potentially weak.
Other than this the main components overall have proved strong and durable even after nearly 7000 miles of commuting in all weathers and seasons.
There may be some issues with the front suspension forks but they still do the job.

More recently I had the bike serviced by my local bike shop and had the steering bearing, front wheel bearing, crank bearing (2nd time), brake cables and gear cable all replaced.
Add in 2 new Schwalbe tyres and I have spent towards £200 trying to keep the bike in good condition.
I do not mind this as it is wear and tear to be expected with steady use.
With the pleasure I have had using the bike every work day and also the £800+ saved in petrol costs if I had driven instead the maintenance costs aren't so bad.

The frustrating thing is that I would much rather cycle to work using my bike rather than driving as I am at the moment.
Ebiking the 26 mile round trip is always an adventure and also very relaxing - for instance when coming home after a late finish at 11pm and being able to see and sense the stars on a clear night makes me smile every time.

I am optimistic that eventually I will sort this problem out somehow.

Barry.

 

[JuicyBike]

If you can get to E-Motion in Swindon, I can recommend their service team.

 

[bazwaldo]

Finally some excellent news to give!
I took my Bearprint bike to a Freego Ebike dealer near Radstock (Bike Tricity) last Friday and after replacing the front wiring Loom the bike appears to be working well again with normally functioning power Leds and light switch. I was able to pick it up today on my day off. Rob Allen the proprietor also found some replacement centre stand rubber feet for me as well which was marvellous. Rob is very friendly and very helpful, he provided a great service.
I tried a nearly 6 mile trip this evening and it seems as good as new.
Tomorrow I will be back to commuting to work which seems like a very good thing with this continuing lovely sunny weather.
Also with the threatened petrol tanker strike currently hanging over us I am especially pleased to be able to restart saving money on fuel costs travelling to work.
The downside is that with the parts and labour and VAT it cost £92 to fix the fault but I am really pleased to be back on the road.
I am really hoping to have many more miles of trouble free commuting for a while now.
Best wishes to all.
Barry.

 

[NRG]

Good news Barry, great weather for commuting as well! Enjoy it.

 

[Eaglerider]

Great News Bazwaldo,

£92 is a great deal less than the £2000 you would need for a Bosch Crank Drive bike, and as you say, with your new batteries, and new wiring loom, its as good as new. I guess your bike's similarity to the Freego models is a distinct advantage, especially if you have a nice dealer nearby.

I wonder, did you try a crankdrive? I had a good test (30 odd miles each) of both Bosch and Panasonic ones, and I would'nt swop either for my Hub Drive. Especially as they cost so much more, have horrific replacement battery costs, and are comparatively weedy on the power front.

I'd be interested to hear what you think of crank drives if you try one, I'll bet you stick with the Bearprint.

 

[NRG]

Weedy on the power front? how's that? The Bosh and new Panasonic are both 500w driving via the gears so benefit from the multiplication of torque...or are you comparing a non legal hub setup?

 

[Eaglerider]

Weedy on the power front? how's that? The Bosh and new Panasonic are both 500w driving via the gears so benefit from the multiplication of torque...or are you comparing a non legal hub setup?

I couldn't say what power rating they had. They were both fitted to brand new bikes, and I had a whole weekend on each. Their ability at climbing steep hills is excellent due to the gearing advantage, but they are so heavily restricted. The Panasonic one I rode even on the highest power setting started cutting the power above about 8 or 9 mph and leaned back further until at 15 mph all power was lost. Therefore, to ride at 16 mph the crank drives offer no assistance at all. This manifests itself on the flat as like being towed by a slack towrope, as you reach 15mph the power disappears, (the rope goes slack) either you keep pedalling all on your own or you wait for the bike to slow down below 15 mph, then you get a brief snatch of power (the rope tightens up) and its gone again.

They are nicely engineered units but I fear have been emasculated by over zealous restriction. They feel like a bicycle to ride with a bit of assistance. In the cruise, or on all but the really steep bits, my Eagle will blow these bikes into the weeds because my pedalling effort is in addition to the power, not instead of it.

Ideally I would have a Bosch crank drive for off roading on a nice mountain bike as a second bike, but on the road in general use, I'd take my 250 watt Freego Eagle every time. Its faster, has more range, and does not cause my knee to swell up. 3 hours on a crank drive and my Knee is that sore I can't ride at all for two days.

It may be that the latest versions are more powerful, but after having given crank drives a good trial, I would definitely stick with the Hub drive. Whilst hill climbing is the crank drive's forte, thats only on really steep stuff. On a medium gentle long hill, I still travel at around 16 to 17 mph with some effort. To do the same on a Panasonic would destroy my knees in minutes.

Just my perspective from my own riding experiences.

 

[flecc]

The Panasonic one I rode even on the highest power setting started cutting the power above about 8 or 9 mph and leaned back further until at 15 mph all power was lost.

That must have been an old model, they phased down from 9.4 mph (15 kph). On models for Europe and the UK from 2011 the power doesn't start phasing down until about 14.5 mph, but still ends at 15 mph. That would also have had the old lower power unit, so wouldn't have compared to the Bosch in any respect.

However, I understand your preference for the hub motor with your knee problem, the crank drive units do insist on a fair proportion of rider input at all times, and some hub motor bikes like yours are more flexible about the maximum assist speed.

 

[bazwaldo]

Great News Bazwaldo,
I wonder, did you try a crankdrive? I had a good test (30 odd miles each) of both Bosch and Panasonic ones, and I would'nt swop either for my Hub Drive. Especially as they cost so much more, have horrific replacement battery costs, and are comparatively weedy on the power front.

I'd be interested to hear what you think of crank drives if you try one, I'll bet you stick with the Bearprint.

Thanks for your reply Eaglerider.
I have never ridden a crank drive ebike and have only the posts of others to gauge their abilities including yours.
The Tonaro crank drive has always interested me as it is more of a value brand like the Freego type of bike.
It certainly would be fascinating and interesting to be able to try the different variations of crank drive bikes at the same time to be able to make a comparison of their relative performance.
You may well be right and I might find at the end of it that my budget Bearprint hub drive ebike isn't so bad after all!

Barry.

 

[mike killay]

Once again I have to jump in and sing the praises of the Tonaro system
It is nothing like the Bosch or Panasonic.
The thottle gives full power at all times and in all gears. There is no phasing down, and if the speed restrictor magnet is moved on the back wheel, it will go up to about 16-17 mph with none of the 'slack rope' feel to it.
You do not have to pedal at all if you don't want to except on the steepest hills, which for me with dodgy knees and hips is a godsend. The motor is 250 watt (mine being older is 200w)

 

[Eaglerider]

Yes, I'd like to have a go on a Tonaro, I would conjecture its a half way house between hub drives and crank drives, and it has a throttle. Could be ideal.

 

[mike killay]

No half way house about it at all.
It is a true crank drive, not a chain puller.
The truth is that it is in my opinion the best crank drive system. It has a pedelec if you want to use it, not sophisticated, just a magnet disc and three power levels. When pedalling these power levels give adequate assistance without complicated torque measurements.
Unlike European crank drivers, the Tonaro does have a throttle, so there is no need to do the Bosch dodge of moving the speed sensor magnet to the crank arm etc. to get full power with light pedalling. The rider, not the system commands all the power input.

 

[flecc]

there is no need to do the Bosch dodge of moving the speed sensor magnet to the crank arm etc. to get full power with light pedalling.

This modification is nothing to do with getting full power. It's done to override the 15 mph speed limiting, permitting power assist very far beyond 15 mph. It doesn't in any way alter the torque sensor's pedal force needs.