eMTB buying advice

[2Lazy]

I have an Ezee Forza ebike which I bought two years ago and I've been using it regularly for commuting for the past year. I love the bike, it's a hybrid style and it's perfect for commuting but I'm now considering the purchase of a second ebike, an eMTB designed specifically for off road use.

I'm hoping that the knowledgable folk on here can give me some general buying advice.

About Me -

I'm a novice when comes to MTBs so I don't need a bike that can handle the real adrenaline junky type terrain and jumps etc. I'm based in Milton Keynes and I'd be using the bike mostly for cross country and local forest trails e.g., Woburn and Rushmere Country Park.

41 years old bloke
13.5 stone
5ft 10.5in
Fit and healthy

About the bike -

Full Suspension
Bosch or Yamaha (more on that below) with 500w battery
Budget up to £3500 ish
Needs to be from a dealer that accepts cyclescheme
Ideally I'd like the to option to derestrict


What should I buy?
I have my heart set on a Haibike as I really like the design and I get the sense that they're well made and reliable. But I could possibly be persuaded to look elsewhere - some of the KTMs look quite nice. Is there anything I should bear in mind when comparing Haibike with KTM?

I like the look of the Haibike xDuro FullSeven 5.0 2017 https://www.e-bikeshop.co.uk/Electric-Bikes-UK-Dealer/Full-Suspension-eBikes/Haibike-xDuro-FullSeven-5.0-2017?filter=19&sort=p.price&order=ASC and the HAIBIKE SDURO ALLMTN 6.0 2017 http://www.fullycharged.com/Haibike-sDuro-AllMtn-60-2017-ebike

Where should I buy?
e-bikeshop.co.uk have the best selection of Haibikes and I like the fact I can have a speed tuning dongle fitted at the time of purchase without invalidating the warranty and they have a good selection of upgrade options e.g., integrated lights, but Farmham is a long way from Milton Keynes and I've heard conflicting reports about their customer service. fullycharged.com are based in London which is only 30 minutes by train from MK and they have good range covering Haibike, KTM and other brands. Any other recommendations?

Other things to consider -

Bosch vs Yamaha
From what I've read and seen on YouTube the latest iterations are much of a muchness in terms of torque but there are differences in the way that they deliver power. Can anyone explain to me exactly what the differences are and how they might affect a purchasing decision?

Dropper Post
Is it a worthwhile investment? I understand it allows you to sit further back and lower on the back on descents - but they're pricey and I'm not sure I'd make use of it. Any advice would be welcome.

Frame size
I'm 5ft 10.5" what frame size should I be looking at?

Transport
Is it possible to fit an eMTB into a medium sized hatchback (Honda Civic), with wheels removed if need be, or will I need a rack to go on the back of the car. If so do you have any recommendations for car bike racks suitable for eMTBs?

 

[soundwave]

if you want warranty and a dongle ebike shop is the only option as no other dealer will honer the warranty with a dongle fitted.

 

[STEVEMANFA]

If you don't do lots of downhill stuff then keep your money cuss you won't need a dropper post
I got my bike from e-bikeshop and Martin was fine with me.
You will have good back up with a hailbike cuss you can buy them anywhere.

Good luck with what you go for

 

[chris130256]

Both bikes you've listed can easily 'handle the real adrenalin junky type terrain and jumps' so maybe you don't need to spend so much? I was in the same situation as you this time last year and eventually bought the sduro all mountain rc. I liked the fact that Yamaha have been in the electric bike game for over 20 years and shifted 1million+ bikes. I'm glad that I bought a highly spec'd bike as over the year I've grown into it and now don't just ride trails but do more of the adrenalin junky type terrain. The sduro is awesome the way it rides the bumps and is at home on any of the red runs at UK mtb trail centres.
My only advice is don't bother with a dongle. You won't need it if you're using it for its main purpose.

 

[Steve A]

I bought mine from Martin, e-bike shop. If you want to just get a bike, dongle or not then he's fine. If you want good service, bike sizing advise then look elsewhere.
I've had a couple of issues, and my mistake was not buying locally. Its a pain to take bike over 2 hour drive to Martin. e-bike shop work on turnover, not interested in customer service from my experience and some of the staff are rude and condescending. A buyer deserves better when forking out that kind of money. There are now more local shops that ever selling e-bikes.
Ref dongle, yes he fitted mine. I've since removed it and replaced with a better one. No-one know if you have a dongle fitted or not, just remove before you take back to shop if you have problems. I'm useless with tech stuff , so if i can fit a dongle my 11 year old can. The dongle e-bike shop fits is a 70 dollar one at best, which he charges 150gbp to fit, fair enough i suppose.

As regards to Bosch, Yamaha, Haibike and KTM you ca'y go wrong with any of those. Leave dropper until you find you really need one.

 

[2Lazy]

Both bikes you've listed can easily 'handle the real adrenalin junky type terrain and jumps' so maybe you don't need to spend so much? I was in the same situation as you this time last year and eventually bought the sduro all mountain rc. I liked the fact that Yamaha have been in the electric bike game for over 20 years and shifted 1million+ bikes. I'm glad that I bought a highly spec'd bike as over the year I've grown into it and now don't just ride trails but do more of the adrenalin junky type terrain. The sduro is awesome the way it rides the bumps and is at home on any of the red runs at UK mtb trail centres.
My only advice is don't bother with a dongle. You won't need it if you're using it for its main purpose.

Thanks for the advice Chris. I had considered the sDuro AllMtn 5.0 which I think is the 2017 equivalent of the RC and retails for around £2800. It looks like a really nice bike my only reservation is that it has a 400w battery and I'd like the extra range of a 500w battery. The 500w is on the 2017 6.0 range and higher. I don't know if it's possible to upgrade to a 500w battery at the time of purchase but it could possibly be an option. Also I'm not yet sure whether I want Yamaha or Bosch, I guess I'll only know that after a test ride.

https://www.e-bikeshop.co.uk/Electric-Bikes-UK-Dealer/Full-Suspension-eBikes/Haibike-sDuro-AllMtn-5.0-2017?filter=19&sort=p.price&order=ASC

 

[soundwave]

https://www.e-bikeshop.co.uk/eBike-Spare-Parts/Yamaha-eBike-500Wh-Battery

 

[2Lazy]

I bought mine from Martin, e-bike shop. If you want to just get a bike, dongle or not then he's fine. If you want good service, bike sizing advise then look elsewhere.
I've had a couple of issues, and my mistake was not buying locally. Its a pain to take bike over 2 hour drive to Martin. e-bike shop work on turnover, not interested in customer service from my experience and some of the staff are rude and condescending. A buyer deserves better when forking out that kind of money. There are now more local shops that ever selling e-bikes.
Ref dongle, yes he fitted mine. I've since removed it and replaced with a better one. No-one know if you have a dongle fitted or not, just remove before you take back to shop if you have problems. I'm useless with tech stuff , so if i can fit a dongle my 11 year old can. The dongle e-bike shop fits is a 70 dollar one at best, which he charges 150gbp to fit, fair enough i suppose.

As regards to Bosch, Yamaha, Haibike and KTM you ca'y go wrong with any of those. Leave dropper until you find you really need one.

Thanks Steve. In that case I think I'll give e-bike shop the swerve. Since there aren't any Haibike dealers in Milton Keynes or surrounding areas my best option would probably be an ebike shop in London. Thanks also for the advice regarding dongles, I hadn't realised they were quite so easy to install and that there different models available. It might in any case be worth riding the bike as it comes for a while before deciding whether to install a dongle or not.

 

[2Lazy]

If you don't do lots of downhill stuff then keep your money cuss you won't need a dropper post
I got my bike from e-bikeshop and Martin was fine with me.
You will have good back up with a hailbike cuss you can buy them anywhere.

Good luck with what you go for

Thanks for the advice. That's good news. And I guess I can always have a dropper post installed in the future if I feel its needed.

 

[soundwave]

https://www.badassebikes.com/en/

 

[2Lazy]

One thing I forgot to ask was about price. Are ebike shops generally open to haggling on price, much like new car dealerships, or is the ticket price the amount I should expect to pay?

 

[soundwave]

if you got the cash then it is worth a try but with ebike shop forget it.

 

[Deere John]

I have also used a standard ebike and wanted an explicit offroader. Since they can't be good on both really. So I bought a Haibike Fatsix Xduro. Very satisfied. Great looking and good bikes.

Also check out Cube.

You don't initially need a dropper post. If you ride much trails and downhill then it's very nice to have. Almost a must [emoji2] but start without and if you feel the need you can buy one later. They are very common now and exists many different. You can get a decent for maybe 100£ later.

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

 

[Trevormonty]

For reviews check out ebike-mag.
Other good brands using Bosch CX drive Trek, Cube, Scott. Bulls and Specialized for Brose drive.

With FS bikes you have different classes of travel and spec levels within them.
XC 120mm, Trail 140mm (most popular jack of all trades class), All Mountain 160mm. When comes to spec level the drive chain and brakes are normally good indication of suspension quality. For shimano SLX is good mid range, XT better. Not familiar with SRAM range.

If bike has factory dropper seat then typically the other components are midrange at least. Suspension quality is most important consideration as it is very expensive to upgrade later, brakes and drivetrains are easy to upgrade and not to expensive.

If you buy lower level components and find yourself getting into MTBing then they will limit you. On other hand you don't want to buy high spec 160mm bike and find you only ever do gentle forest trails. These are only questions you can answer or guess.

Most importantly test ride lots of bikes and do 2-3hr on bike you settle on before buying. Frame size and fit is number one criteria.

 

[chris130256]

One thing I forgot to ask was about price. Are ebike shops generally open to haggling on price, much like new car dealerships, or is the ticket price the amount I should expect to pay?

I contacted the 2 nearest Haibike dealers nearest to me and played them against each other which resulted in a 10%discount. It helped that I was buying 2 bikes though. I'd say a 5%discount might be achievable?
Seat post dropper is very beneficial for off road use and it looks as though the sduro 6 has one as standard?
Size wise, my wife is 5' 5" and the 40 frame is a just about right for her. I'm 5' 7", the 40 is a bit too small for me. My 44 frame feels big off the bike but just about perfect on it. So I'm guessing you'll need a 48? They are big bikes and I think you'll need to remove both wheels to get it in the car?
Adrenaline do test days at Cannock. Might be worth checking out?
Watch out though! These emtb's are very addictive. Even after 10 months use, I still get really excited about going out on mine.

 

[STEVEMANFA]

Good luck with what you buy, I'm sure you will love it, and like Chris said once you got the bug you will be on it all the time,
I'd buy the best that you can afford and then you won't have to spend lots on the bike at a later date.
I never had any discount from Martin, I did ask but it was a NO, but I did get some cheap and I mean cheap pedals from him, I wanted a lapierre with a yamaha drive and he was the only place in the uk to get one from, so I had to use him.

 

[2Lazy]

For reviews check out ebike-mag.
Other good brands using Bosch CX drive Trek, Cube, Scott. Bulls and Specialized for Brose drive.

With FS bikes you have different classes of travel and spec levels within them.
XC 120mm, Trail 140mm (most popular jack of all trades class), All Mountain 160mm. When comes to spec level the drive chain and brakes are normally good indication of suspension quality. For shimano SLX is good mid range, XT better. Not familiar with SRAM range.

If bike has factory dropper seat then typically the other components are midrange at least. Suspension quality is most important consideration as it is very expensive to upgrade later, brakes and drivetrains are easy to upgrade and not to expensive.

If you buy lower level components and find yourself getting into MTBing then they will limit you. On other hand you don't want to buy high spec 160mm bike and find you only ever do gentle forest trails. These are only questions you can answer or guess.

Most importantly test ride lots of bikes and do 2-3hr on bike you settle on before buying. Frame size and fit is number one criteria.

Very useful advice, thanks.

I think for me the low to mid range XC or Trail class of bike would be the best option. Haibike's range seems to be fullseven at 120mm, AllMtn at 150mm and enduro at 180mm. So on that basis I think I should be considering a bike from their fullseven or AllMtn range. I'm not overly fussed about the level of components but I do want a 500w battery which will in any case necessitate a 5.0 or greater spec level which I imagine will easily be good enough for my needs.

The bike that I keep coming back to is the Haibike xduro fullseven 5.0 - http://www.fullycharged.com/Haibike-Xduro-FullSeven-5-ebike-2017 - partly because I have been advised that the Bosch system is more refined and better suited to XC - would people on here generally agree with that view? The Yamaha system seems to offer much better value for money but I'm wondering what the catch is.

 

[soundwave]

the parts on that bike are not very good tbh but will do but if you wanted 2017 fox sus front and rear it would cost you a grand to upgrade.

decent wheels then 3-400 each thus why the price sky rockets for the hi end bikes.

tho the most expensive haibike is a rip off tbh as most of the cost is for the frame and wheels.

 

[Trevormonty]

The Cube are far better value.

Cube Stereo Hybrid 120 HPA Pro 500 27.5" 2017 - Electric Bike

Pro is £2900 and better components, go up to Race and you get even better shocks and brakes. Pro brakes are perfectly fine for forest riding and can be easily upgraded if need be.

Haibike tend to be overpriced. Don't forget check out Trek, Scott, KTM.

 

[chris130256]

2lazy, you've got to ride both the Bosche and the Yamaha to see what you think. How someone can say the Bosche is better suited for XC is beyond me? Having ridden both, each system is incredible but the Yamaha's instant torque has the edge for me. The 2 bikes mentioned in your 1st post....sduro has the superior spec.